Air conditioning unit on side of neighbour's house - best approach?

AdrianC

So what did the enforcement team say?

metron

RelievedSheff said:

metron said:

RelievedSheff said:

metron said:

Monsternextdoor said:

The op seems to know an awful lot about what the local authority thinks about the planning of things. 

Maybe a change of career is in order for you to console hysterical women and tell off people who dare try and improve their properties, It is also not down to you to ask your neighbours what they think before they undertake works. Unless you are paying for it, its not up to you.

I hope the local authority grants them retrospective planning for this box that we are all dying to see and you realise that there is other problems rather than a box on a wall.

You're right - it isn't up to me.  But it is up to the planning authority, and the fact is that as it stands it's been illegally installed without consent.  And the planning process requires consultation with neighbours, which is precisely why anyone with any commonsense consults first with neighbours.  That's what normally happens in small villages, but I appreciate that it may not happen in conurbations where neighbours may not know each other.

I don't need a change of career, by the way.  TCPA 1947 and its successors a speciality!

What do you plan to do when this box on the wall gets retrospective planning permission?

Chances are it will because you saying you don't like it is going to hold no weight with the local planning authority.

Are you then going to complain about the colour of their front door, or the colour of their curtains?

The neighbours had no obligation to consult you about any works they are doing to their property. It is none of your business what they choose to do with their property.

You are using the air con/heat pump as a smoke screen to your real issue which is with your neighbours not "being local"

Troll all you like, but do read up a little on the law and its application first.

By the way, this has nothing to do with being 'local' or not - whatever that means. Are you from Royston Vasey?  Most of the village aren't local - we come from all over the country.  And said neighbour has over recent years carried out all sorts of structural changes to the exterior of the house, some of which have probably required planning consent, without a single objection - good luck to him.  This however is different, and since even permitted development rights for air source heat pumps require it to be 'Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.' I don't think there's much doubt about the outcome of a retrospective planning application.

Do your homework before you sound off about a subject you clearly know nothing about.   

Do let us know how you get on with your planning objections.

We will all be waiting with bated breath to hear the outcome.

I genuinely doubt it will be in your favour. (Working with local authority planning departments is part of my job!)

We'll have to see, won't we?  But I suspect it won't even need to go to planning.

By the way, 'working with planning departments' is very different from working as a Planning Officer, or advising Planning Officers on the law. Best stick to whatever area of expertise you may have before mudslinging - water off a duck's back to me.

gingercordial

metron said:

Adsta said:

I'm late to the party... But I don't understand why you think planning permission is required for it?

For smaller (ala most homes) for AC planning permission as long as: 

• The external unit is not installed on a pitched roof
• There is no wind turbine at the property
• The external unit is not installed within 1 metre of the edge of a flat roof
• The volume of the external compressor unit is not more than 0.6m³
• The external unit is more than 1 metre away from the boundary of the property

I've done AC installs historically (not in the last few years as moved in career) but I have never encountered needed planning permission unless its like a listed property.

Those are the widely misquoted conditions plastered across the net as a result of sellers misusing the legislation first brought in by The Town and Country Planning (General Permitted Development) (Amendment) (England) Order 2011):

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps/2

It applies only to air source heat pumps, and even then it's very restricted as to what's covered - see below.  A lot of people buying aircon units are being conned by sellers into thinking they don't need planning permission, but they do.  There's absolutely no exemption for  aircon units.

Limits to be met:

• Development is permitted only if the air source heat pump installation complies with the Microgeneration Certification Scheme Planning Standards (MCS 020) or equivalent standards. Read more about the scheme
• The volume of the air source heat pump’s outdoor compressor unit (including housing) must not exceed 0.6 cubic metres
• Only the first installation of an air source heat pump would be permitted development, and only if there is no existing wind turbine on a building or within the curtilage of that property. Additional wind turbines or air source heat pumps at the same property requires an application for planning permission
• All parts of the air source heat pump must be at least one metre from the property boundary
• Installations on pitched roofs are not permitted development. If installed on a flat roof all parts of the air source heat pump must be at least one metre from the external edge of that roof
• Permitted development rights do not apply for installations within the curtilage of a Listed Building or within a site designated as a Scheduled Monument
• On land within a Conservation Area or World Heritage Site the air source heat pump must not be installed on a wall or roof which fronts a highway or be nearer to any highway which bounds the property than any part of the building
• On land that is not within a Conservation Area or World Heritage Site, the air source heat pump must not be installed on a wall if that wall fronts a highway and any part of that wall is above the level of the ground storey.

In addition, the following conditions must also be met. The air source heat pump must be:

• Used solely for heating purposes
• Removed as soon as reasonably practicable when it is no longer needed for microgeneration
• Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.

For what it's worth (very little on the internet) I did look up the legislation over lunch and I agree with you.  Those exemptions are for heat pumps which *only* heat, and do not apply to air conditioning units or combined heating/cooling units.  I couldn't find any permitted development exemptions for air conditioning units.

Which will not mean your local planning department will take the point, of course.

Interestingly, I have also checked my local planning portal for a property nearby which we have seen have an air conditioning unit installed on the side passage this year as part of a full renovation and loft conversion (we've been keeping an eye on it whenever we walk past as we viewed it but ruled it out as too much work needed for us, but were interested to see what the eventual buyers would do).  The new owners went so far as to submit a planning application for the loft conversion, which was judged by the council to fall under permitted development so no formal permission needed.  However the application and decision do not mention the a/c unit aspect.  Given these are people cautious enough to apply for PP even though clearly within PD limits, and have all the building control sign offs nicely logged too, I can only assume they thought/were told an a/c unit definitely didn't need PP at all?  

RelievedSheff

metron said:

RelievedSheff said:

metron said:

RelievedSheff said:

metron said:

Monsternextdoor said:

The op seems to know an awful lot about what the local authority thinks about the planning of things. 

Maybe a change of career is in order for you to console hysterical women and tell off people who dare try and improve their properties, It is also not down to you to ask your neighbours what they think before they undertake works. Unless you are paying for it, its not up to you.

I hope the local authority grants them retrospective planning for this box that we are all dying to see and you realise that there is other problems rather than a box on a wall.

You're right - it isn't up to me.  But it is up to the planning authority, and the fact is that as it stands it's been illegally installed without consent.  And the planning process requires consultation with neighbours, which is precisely why anyone with any commonsense consults first with neighbours.  That's what normally happens in small villages, but I appreciate that it may not happen in conurbations where neighbours may not know each other.

I don't need a change of career, by the way.  TCPA 1947 and its successors a speciality!

What do you plan to do when this box on the wall gets retrospective planning permission?

Chances are it will because you saying you don't like it is going to hold no weight with the local planning authority.

Are you then going to complain about the colour of their front door, or the colour of their curtains?

The neighbours had no obligation to consult you about any works they are doing to their property. It is none of your business what they choose to do with their property.

You are using the air con/heat pump as a smoke screen to your real issue which is with your neighbours not "being local"

Troll all you like, but do read up a little on the law and its application first.

By the way, this has nothing to do with being 'local' or not - whatever that means. Are you from Royston Vasey?  Most of the village aren't local - we come from all over the country.  And said neighbour has over recent years carried out all sorts of structural changes to the exterior of the house, some of which have probably required planning consent, without a single objection - good luck to him.  This however is different, and since even permitted development rights for air source heat pumps require it to be 'Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.' I don't think there's much doubt about the outcome of a retrospective planning application.

Do your homework before you sound off about a subject you clearly know nothing about.   

Do let us know how you get on with your planning objections.

We will all be waiting with bated breath to hear the outcome.

I genuinely doubt it will be in your favour. (Working with local authority planning departments is part of my job!)

We'll have to see, won't we?  But I suspect it won't even need to go to planning.

By the way, 'working with planning departments' is very different from working as a Planning Officer, or advising Planning Officers on the law. Best stick to whatever area of expertise you may have before mudslinging - water off a duck's back to me.

It will be a good job it is once the neighbours find out what you have been saying about them and are planning!!

Adsta

I'm not sure if you are just mis-understanding the guidance. But you do NOT need planning permission for AC or Heat Pumps as long as those conditions are met. 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps

The installation of a ground source heat pump or a water source heat pump on domestic premises is usually considered to be permitted development, not needing an application for planning permission.

If you live in a listed building or a conservation area you should contact your council to check on local requirements.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities/37/planning_permission/2

You can perform certain types of work without needing to apply for planning permission. These are called "permitted development rights".

You may very well have a point:

• Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.

But without see pictures or knowing circumstance you could be wrong. If its considered that where it is mounted is the most practicable place to put it. It stays there regardless of planning permission.

AdrianC

metron said:

RelievedSheff said:

Do let us know how you get on with your planning objections.

We will all be waiting with bated breath to hear the outcome.

I genuinely doubt it will be in your favour. (Working with local authority planning departments is part of my job!)

We'll have to see, won't we?  But I suspect it won't even need to go to planning.

So you haven't phoned the enforcement team, then?

And you aren't planning to?

You're just going to hope that the neighbour sees sense when you go round and ask him nicely?

Do let us know how that goes.

Doc_N

Adsta said:

I'm not sure if you are just mis-understanding the guidance. But you do NOT need planning permission for AC or Heat Pumps as long as those conditions are met. 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps

The installation of a ground source heat pump or a water source heat pump on domestic premises is usually considered to be permitted development, not needing an application for planning permission.

If you live in a listed building or a conservation area you should contact your council to check on local requirements.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities/37/planning_permission/2

You can perform certain types of work without needing to apply for planning permission. These are called "permitted development rights".

You may very well have a point:

• Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.

But without see pictures or knowing circumstance you could be wrong. If its considered that where it is mounted is the most practicable place to put it. It stays there regardless of planning permission.

Love these discussions! The OP is right on the law though, whatever the moral issues. You’re misunderstanding the guidance actually. It applies only to heat pumps used solely for heating purposes. An air conditioning unit simply isn’t covered, because it’s not a heat pump used solely for heating purposes.

Quite the reverse in fact, and the planning changes were brought in to encourage the production of green energy. Not extraordinarily ungreen AC systems.

AdrianC

Doc_N said:

The OP is right on the law though

Yes, he is.

But he seems unwilling to act on that, by bringing the lack of PP to the one group of people who can do anything at all about it.

Gavin83

Doc_N said:

Love these threads, but I have to wonder why anyone bothers to start them, knowing the almost inevitable outcome.

Back to the point for once though - and trying to apply some logic to help the OP -

Which would be cheaper for the errant neighbour?  Moving the unit to ground level, presumably out of sight?  Or making a planning application (not cheap) and facing all the problems the guy in the blog faced? I’d hazard a guess that the first would be cheaper.

Having said that, what you don’t want is a dispute that has to be declared on a house sale. Referring the matter to the planners, perhaps anonymously, wouldn’t do that, because the dispute would be between errant neighbour and planners. A long drawn out dispute with the neighbours would though. Avoid that at all costs.

Just a few random thoughts.

In the neighbours situation I'd let them lodge the complaint with the council and take the risk. As mentioned by you, if it does need planning permission then it'll be a problem when I came to sell in the future so ultimately whether it's moved or not that application will need to be made.

I think it's entirely possible the council won't really care and even if they did I expect retrospective planning permission would be granted, objections or no objections.

I'm interested in the outcome of this as I'm also considering aircon in the house we're buying. I will however speak to the council first.

RelievedSheff

Doc_N said:

Adsta said:

I'm not sure if you are just mis-understanding the guidance. But you do NOT need planning permission for AC or Heat Pumps as long as those conditions are met. 

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200130/common_projects/27/heat_pumps

The installation of a ground source heat pump or a water source heat pump on domestic premises is usually considered to be permitted development, not needing an application for planning permission.

If you live in a listed building or a conservation area you should contact your council to check on local requirements.

https://www.planningportal.co.uk/info/200187/your_responsibilities/37/planning_permission/2

You can perform certain types of work without needing to apply for planning permission. These are called "permitted development rights".

You may very well have a point:

• Sited, so far as is practicable, to minimise its effect on the external appearance of the building and its effect on the amenity of the area.

But without see pictures or knowing circumstance you could be wrong. If its considered that where it is mounted is the most practicable place to put it. It stays there regardless of planning permission.

Love these discussions! The OP is right on the law though, whatever the moral issues. You’re misunderstanding the guidance actually. It applies only to heat pumps used solely for heating purposes. An air conditioning unit simply isn’t covered, because it’s not a heat pump used solely for heating purposes.

Quite the reverse in fact, and the planning changes were brought in to encourage the production of green energy. Not extraordinarily ungreen AC systems.

Given the climatic warming we are told to be expecting air conditioning units will only become more popular.

Green or not they are here to stay so we may as well get used to them.

No point getting upset about a white box on a neighbours wall.