Gas Meter Issue

geemus53

I don't know if anyone has any ideas or thoughts...I have a problem.  I did my "comparisons" online and signed up with Avro Energy two years ago for joint energy gas and electricity.  They are the third supplier I have signed with whilst at my current address. I've sent my meter readings promptly to Avro online every month as requested. A few weeks ago I was due to renew and I did the usual "comparisons" online and decided to just stay with Avro. I have had no problems with them and the rates seemed good. I happily renewed my contract for another year, and been given the new monthly direct debit payment. All done easily, quickly and online. However, I had built up the credit of about £300 on my account over the two years I had been with them and asked for this to be paid back to my bank account or the monthly direct debits to be reduced.  I was then mysteriously asked if I had ever changed the gas meter and for a photograph of my gas meter, which I did.  I was surprised to then hear they have been using my meter readings every month for the last two years as being from a DIGITAL gas meter and not a " cubic feet" meter, which it is. They say that the national database of gas meters says it's digital, which is the information they use.
I've now been sent a new re-adjusted bill, going back the last TWO years and now shows a large DEBIT I owe them!! My past bills have also been deleted from my online account with Avro. I suggested to them if there is this issue over gas meter registration and it has only just come to light, they should at least re-assess the bill from my new contract, not two years back. I have just received a polite email from customer services who consider the matter now resolved.
I'm also trying to work out who's actually at fault and whether what they have done is legally right or fair even because I seem to be picking up the bill when I have done nothing wrong. I believe this gas meter of mine has been in since the house was built in the 1990s.
I have sent an email to the Gas Meter Database which I found on a Google search, and am waiting to see whether they confirm Avro Energy's claim that my gas meter is registered as being metric (although it clearly isn't).  I've also made a contact with the Energy Ombudsman, who didn't show any reaction but did give me a reference number. 
Has anyone else had this problem of incorrect database and what happened please, was it resolved ?

NSG666

Hi, looking at this link shows that digital meters can be either m3 or ft3 United Gas & Power's Guide to Gas Meters (ugp.co.uk)

It's odd though as if you have a ft3 meter and they thought it was a m3 meter then if the reading had increased by 27 they would have thought that you had used 27m3 and charged accordingly whereas you've really used 27ft3 which is less that 1m3 i.e. if anything they would have been over not under charging?

MWT

It's odd though as if you have a ft3 meter and they thought it was a m3 meter then if the reading had increased by 27 they would have thought that you had used 27m3 and charged accordingly whereas you've really used 27ft3 which is less that 1m3 i.e. if anything they would have been over not under charging?

The problem is that when you read an older ft3 meter the lowest digit represents 100ft3 not 1ft3

On a newer m3 meter the lowest digit is 1m3.

So one unit in ft3 = 2.83m3

I'm somewhat surprised that it wasn't obviously a very low reading all that time as it would have been roughly 1/3 of what it should have been.

The bill would also have shown an incorrect calculation of the kW used...

Also the online entry screen for the meter reading should have been asking for 5 digits and the meter would only have had 4 digits to enter...

geemus53 said:

I've also made a contact with the Energy Ombudsman, who didn't show any reaction but did give me a reference number. 
Has anyone else had this problem of incorrect database and what happened please, was it resolved ?

The Ombudsman is unlikely to do anything until you have completed the complaints process with your supplier which will take a few weeks.

[Deleted User]

The OP must take some of the responsibility for not picking up on this error. If he has been providing meter readings then the volume measured (Cubic Feet/Cubic Metres) is clearly marked on the face of the meter. A simple check of every bill will show the volume to kWh conversion formula that has been used to calculate charges. Moreover, there must have been a big change in the charges when the supply was switched to Avro unless all previous suppliers had also got it wrong.

My guess is that The EO will find in favour of the supplier with perhaps a very small amount of compensation for poor customer service. 

Brie

Wouldn't this have been an issue with other suppliers as well?  Has the billing changed significantly or the price dropped a huge amount??  I find that doing comparisons I might save a bit - maybe 10% but not be 2/3rds or similar.

NSG666

The error of my thinking has been pointed out. It sounds like you are being asked to pay for what you've actually used rather than what they thought you had used so you are not really any worse off just a bit shocked. By all means try for a bit of goodwill but don't hold your breath.

brewerdave

Brie said:

Wouldn't this have been an issue with other suppliers as well?  Has the billing changed significantly or the price dropped a huge amount??  I find that doing comparisons I might save a bit - maybe 10% but not be 2/3rds or similar.

Are you entering the correct kwh figure for gas consumption pa ?? If you use gas for heating and hot water you should expect to use between 10,000 and 20,000kwh pa

geemus53

Thanks to all who have kindly put messages. I've taken all on board.
I have this evening had a phone call from the Gas Meter Database representative, who explained that it appears as far back as August 2010, that's ten years ago, my meter details were entered as the same as another house just around the corner from me, with a slightly different postcode, and no one has noticed the problem until now !!! My meter had in 2010 been entered on the national database as being metric, not cubic feet. She was quite helpful but said my supplier Avro Energy would have been correct to believe my meter was a digital one since the National Database states it is. And their calculations would be correct in that I have been billed for a much smaller amount than actually used. However, she said that Avro may have had several chances to spot a problem when their meter reader visited, which he has done certainly twice to my knowledge, my meters are both outside so meter readers could visit without me knowing. They should have noted it was a cubic feet meter not metric. I hear the point made above, too, in that I could have noticed this difference when I read my gas meter, but I don't study my bills, how many people do? I read the two meters every month and put them in online. I don't think I would have actually looked at my gas bill, then looked at the meter to check if it is marked cubic feet or meters. I suppose I "trust the system". I live in a small close with six houses and today I have looked at all other five gas meters....four are now "smart meters" and the fifth is a modern white metric gas meter with five black digits, but not a smart gas meter. The Gas Meter Representative was surprised that none of my gas suppliers or any previous suppliers had reported an "old meter". It's even a bit rusty. I see the date on it is 1992.  We can all surmise what Could have happened or Might have happened. Personally, I've been more worried about the large wasp nest swirling about just above my conservatory door !! Are they going to come into the house ? However, it was suggested I consider put the matter into a dispute with Avro if they have made a decision and try to appeal to their kinder side!! 
Thanks to all who took the trouble to read and make comments, that by itself made me feel I am not alone.

MWT

geemus53 said:

However, she said that Avro may have had several chances to spot a problem when their meter reader visited, which he has done certainly twice to my knowledge, my meters are both outside so meter readers could visit without me knowing. They should have noted it was a cubic feet meter not metric.

I’m very surprised to hear that you have seen a meter reader twice in the last two years. 

Ofgem removed the obligation for the supplier to read/inspect the meters once every two years before you moved to them. 

These days as long as they get a meter reading from you, they have no obligation to read it themselves.

I wonder if what you saw was a meter inspection by the company who owns the meters, which is not your supplier?

[Deleted User]

I doubt that Avro actually has any staff that read or inspect meters. Today the function is usually outsourced to a third-party such as Morrisons Data Services, or Lowri and Beck. As posted above, there is no longer any obligation on suppliers to read meters. Even if it was read, then I very much doubt that the person reading it would be concerned to check whether it was in cubic metres or cubic feet. He/she would just enter the reading into a handheld device for onward transmission to the supplier.

geemus53

It's interesting what you say since my meters are both outside, I have been aware of two occasions when I've been home and someone has knocked at the door and asked to read the meter, the last time was certainly this year, about three months ago, possibly less,...perhaps they have been "casing the joint" !!! Frankly, if it was genuine and from the company that owns the meters, I'd have thought they might have been interested in actually replacing my old meter. Nowadays everything moves along smoothly using online so it makes sense that since readings are all done online or using wi-fi via a smart meter the isn't any reason to visit homes anymore unless someone thinks I'm running a secret weed factory! Thanks again for your comments.