Buying a house in need of improvements - advice needed!

Phil4432

My experience;  Make an estimate based on local rates, add about 5k on top for safety.  Sh#t tends to happen with refurbishment.

Don't forget to consider asbestos and lead paint.  Because most builders wont  

ashe

Don’t forget that all these services are likely massive lead times if getting people in to do them, one delay can have huge knock on effects to the plan 

Jeepers_Creepers

Takay, all good stuff in these posts.

We moved in to a late-'30s bungalow 20 years ago that hadn't been touched since the early '70s. It needed all the stuff you have outlined for yours - new CH (well, boiler and rads), kitchen bathrooms, wiring (partial), rounded arches squared-off, and compete decoration. We had a 1-year old and a new-born at the same time. Shortly afterwards we went up into the roof.

Looking back, I compromised on some things due to the disruption it would cause, which I now wish I hadn't. One was retaining the 1-pipe CH system, but you won't have that issue as you are going completely new. The other thing I didn't do - although it was simply because it never occurred to me, not because of disruption (tho' it would have been) - is internal insulation.

The house is 'cavity' and already had insulation in there, but the bedrooms which have 2 outside walls are still noticeably cooler than the others - I wish I wish I wish I had D&D'd thermal laminate board on to the exterior walls. It would only have lost an inchandaquarter of internal space, but I know now that it would have transformed the insulation value of these rooms. (I know this because I did do it to a single-skinned attached garage, and that room is super-cosy). You don't have to go 'thick' with insulation if you don't want to lose space - even 1" stuff will transform how the room feels.

The other thing that I wish I'd done - tho' I hadn't realised how important it would have been - is to insulate/draught-proof the floor. It is traditional T&G boards over a ventilated void underneath, and even with new carpets and underlay, it is draughty... The whole bludy house is. And that's the main reason it's harder to heat, not in cold weather, but in windy climes. Air must be percolating through the floor everywhere...

If redoing, I would add a layer of insulating fibre board over the whole floor first, sealing it fully around the perimeter, and the sheets to eachother - a draught-proof layer. That's all it would need. Yes, you could lift all your floors and insulate underneath, but, blimey. You could even crawl along the voids and fit from below, but ditto. It just doesn't need that for a very effective improvement.

Your budget sounds pretty solid. Yes, perhaps the kitchen budget is a touch low, but - really - it should be very doable as it is, especially if you can DIY this. Looks at compromises on the labour side - if you can fit the units and do a decent job of it, then get a tradespeep in to the do the hard bit - the worktops, for example.

Exciting!

Oh, the other thing is - be chilled. Know it's going to be disruption, but be chilled about it. We kept the main bedroom untouched until everything else was done - so we had one bedroom we could all fit in to that wasn't a mess. If you can keep a 'living' space like this too, then great. Ie - keep a couple of refuges, and then rip the rest of the house apart...

Make a detailed list of everything you are going to do, and then add to each how you will do it, and in what order. Most will be really obvious stuff - electrics (and Cat) and plumbing all laid out at the same time whilst floorboards are up. 'Each room will have this: rad of this size here, 4 sockets there, an Ethernet socket and TV aerial there, Cat going from her to there...'

As someone said, probably best not the fit the rad on an insulated external wall soi as not to compromise the insulation, but in reality you can do this if that's where you really want the rad. Modern rads in well-insulated rooms can go pretty much anywhere, so really give this some thought. Also consider 'column' rads, but check their outputs - ie fit what will look good, and can be positioned where it is least obtrusive.

Plan, plan, plan...

And enjoy.

FreeBear

Jeepers_Creepers said: The other thing that I wish I'd done - tho' I hadn't realised how important it would have been - is to insulate/draught-proof the floor. It is traditional T&G boards over a ventilated void underneath, and even with new carpets and underlay, it is draughty... The whole bludy house is. And that's the main reason it's harder to heat, not in cold weather, but in windy climes. Air must be percolating through the floor everywhere...

If redoing, I would add a layer of insulating fibre board over the whole floor first, sealing it fully around the perimeter, and the sheets to eachother - a draught-proof layer. That's all it would need. Yes, you could lift all your floors and insulate underneath, but, blimey. You could even crawl along the voids and fit from below, but ditto. It just doesn't need that for a very effective improvement.

T&G floorboards shouldn't be draughty unless they have been butchered in order to put pipes or cables underneath. I draught proofed the lounge here - Expanding foam around the perimeter (use a gun & can for precision application). A layer of aluminium foil on top of the floorboards followed by 5mm thick wood fiber boards. With 11mm foam underlay, no draughts and nice & warm in the winter.

Crawling around in the void is not an option - Probably around 300mm gap down there, and having dwarf walls every 8' or so compounds the problem. As for lifting the boards to get insulation between the joists, that is a huge undertaking...

Jeepers_Creepers

FreeBear said:

T&G floorboards shouldn't be draughty unless they have been butchered in order to put pipes or cables underneath. I draught proofed the lounge here - Expanding foam around the perimeter (use a gun & can for precision application). A layer of aluminium foil on top of the floorboards followed by 5mm thick wood fiber boards. With 11mm foam underlay, no draughts and nice & warm in the winter.

Crawling around in the void is not an option - Probably around 300mm gap down there, and having dwarf walls every 8' or so compounds the problem. As for lifting the boards to get insulation between the joists, that is a huge undertaking...

Absolutely, FB. I suspect most of the draught is from around the perimeter, but it never occurred to me at the time to seal around there under the skirting.

T&Gs shouldn't be that draughty, but in practice the joints won't be as tight as when first installed, and the draughts are seemingly caused by an accumulated amount - wee seeps combined!

Yes, that's the stuff I meant - the thin fibre boards used for laminate underlay. I didn't this in our hallway under the new T&G boards, and frame-sealanted around the perimeter. That worked. But too much hassle now to remove the fitted carpet in the bedrooms.

When it comes to replacing the carpet, then yes, absolutely.

takay9

Thanks everyone, that is really great. I am thinking we will do as much of the internal insulation as we can whilst we are doing rewire/central heating etc so that we only need to pull up the floors and walls once! Is it tricky to put sockets and electrics on a wall with insulated plasterboard?

The other thing we now know is the extension out of the back (a conservatory linked to a room) is single skin, so this will definitely need insulating. Does anyone have any experience around this?  

FreeBear

You can get back boxes specifically designed for use in plasterboard, but... If you are using insulated PB (PB bonded to a layer of insulation) you need to be a little creative when putting conduit in for the wiring - Drill a hole through the insulation and fix the back box before attaching the PB/insulation to the wall. Fix conduit to the wall, punch a hole right through the PB/insulation for the back box and cross fingers that it all lines up (you then have a cold spot prone to condensation).

If you are battening the walls (do a search for "warm batten"), conduit and back boxes can be fitted as you go. You also have opportunity to fix battens to hang curtain rails from - When I insulated a small room, I used the warm batten method. Included battens for the curtain rails, but didn't bother with sockets.

For the single skin walls in the conservatory, definitely use warm battens and leave a ~25mm gap between insulation and brick. It may pay to drill a couple of weep holes in the bricks just above the DPC to provide a little bit of ventilation to the gap (the holes only need to be ~6mm dia).

takay9

If you are battening the walls (do a search for "warm batten"), conduit and back boxes can be fitted as you go. You also have opportunity to fix battens to hang curtain rails from - When I insulated a small room, I used the warm batten method. Included battens for the curtain rails, but didn't bother with sockets.

What are the pros/cons of battening the walls or using thermal plasterboard? Is there much cost difference?

FreeBear

takay9 said: What are the pros/cons of battening the walls or using thermal plasterboard? Is there much cost difference?

Using the warm batten method is more work, but the material cost is a little lower - You can also seal the joints with expanding foam & aluminimum tape as you go. This marginally improves the thermal efficiency and gives you a vapour control barrier in the process. In addition, if you are planning on fixing "stuff" to the walls (curtain rails, radiators, etc), battens fixed in the right places help to take the loads.

Thermal (insulated) plasterboard can be stuck to the walls quickly and simply, but you should use mechanical fixings at regular intervals. The walls also need to be fairly flat without any lumps sticking out.

Once I had stripped the plaster off the walls I did, I found the bricks originally used in the construction to be all the old crappy ones. The wall was far from flat and had loads of bits sticking out. Whilst I could have put a parging coat on, the additional cost & effort wasn't worth it. Fixing battens to the wall meant I could avoid the worst of the lumpy bits. As it was a solid brick wall, I needed (wanted) an air gap between the insulation & wall plus a vapour control membrane.