Relative died with no will - SCOTLAND

kayleighali

Hi there,

Background:
My partner's grandmother passed away last week with no will or POA in place
No spouse as grandfather passed away some years ago 
Two children - my partner's father and his younger sister

Issue:
As there is no will, we understand that any money will pass to both children equally (no property as social housing). This is where it goes wrong. The children do not have a good relationship - sister lived in England, never came to visit etc whilst my FIL was there every day.
We are concerned that the sister will empty the bank accounts (under £36k if that helps?) and disappear as comments have been made by sister to sisters partner to make sure bank statements etc are hidden so that FIL can't see them. However, FIL knows how much is in accounts etc.

As there is no will, we understand the death can be registered with the bank by anyone as a personal representative as long as they have two forms of ID - simple solution would be for FIL to do this but he doesn't have two forms of ID they will accept.

What can we do? Any advice? We have contacted a solicitor for advice and are awaiting a callback.

Thanks

Keep_pedalling

How will she empty the bank accounts when it is unlikely that she knows the details of those accounts. If your partner’s father has access to her house then he should take all important documents into his safe keeping.

kayleighali

Keep_pedalling said:

How will she empty the bank accounts when it is unlikely that she knows the details of those accounts. If your partner’s father has access to her house then he should take all important documents into his safe keeping.

The sister and partner are up from England at the moment to assist with clearing the house (only given 3 weeks from the Council) and with funeral arrangements. They are staying in the house while all this goes on rather than pay for a hotel. They will have access to all that information in the house and this was when the comment happened regarding hiding the statements from FIL.

Previously, the relationship was never good but was amicable which is why FIL had no issue with them having access to information - he's a trusting soul - but after this he is worried that they will take the money, disappear and leave him with bills for the funeral etc. 

I know if this happens there is court etc but I honestly don't know if FIL's health would be up to pursuing all that so would like to help as much as possible within legal parameters before it gets to that stage

Brie

Make sure that FIL gets to the bank first??

kayleighali

Brie said:

Make sure that FIL gets to the bank first??

The issue there is with the two forms of ID - FIL doesn't drive so has no license and has never been out the country so no passport, he doesn't have the other forms of ID that the bank will accept either. I made that suggestion that my partner or his brother can go along with FIL and use their ID to register but the concern is that the sister gets in there first. 

At the moment we are waiting on the death certificate being released from the council - apparently under covid restrictions you don't get the normal registering a death process but it is all dealt with by the council and you simply collect - but FIL can't remember who's number the council has to contact and let them know the certificate is ready etc. It's all a bit of a mess and we are trying to stay one step ahead but we don't really know what we are trying to stay ahead of.

Just to clarify, we have no financial interest in this, just want to ensure that FIL gets what is due to him. I know that is normally questioned when money is involved

GSS20

If FIL’s BIL has told him he was asked to hide the statements why did he tell him this. Your FIL has the same rights as his sister to see them. Does she not trust your FIL?. Can someone go to the house with FIL and talk about the splitting of the estate with his sister and funeral arrangements?  Whoever organises the funeral is liable for payment. Has the funeral been arranged or has it passed already? If sister organised the funeral then FIL will not be liable personally it will be her or the estate. If the estate is under 36k that does not necessarily mean that confirmation is not needed. If she had savings with NS&I or premium bonds they may request confirmation. 

If he thinks she is going to take all the money and disappear and he is not in any fit state to deal with it  given that this is probably the end of their relationship then personally I would walk away and if anyone chases for money give the sister’s address and say that he is not administering the estate but believes she may have dealt with it. 

I do hope he is wrong and that they both can just split the estate and agree on what has to be done to administer it. If your FIL doesn’t have any ID then he would probably have some trouble trying to apply for representation also.

thegreenone

Who actually registered the death?  In England, I had to have a telephone call with the Registrar and go through a series of questions and the certs. were posted to me, but I realise it may be different in Scotland but I would've thought on the same basis.

I agree that your partner and his brother need to get down to the bank with their Dad asap and explain the situation and phone the Council to ask.

sheramber

Your FIL should advise the bank/s that his father has died so the account/s will be frozen. Nobody will be able to move money out until things are sorted out.

kayleighali

Thank you everyone for the responses. I will try to answer best I can

GSS20 said:

If FIL’s BIL has told him he was asked to hide the statements why did he tell him this.
It was an overheard comment, I don't believe FIL was meant to hear as sister was on the phone to her partner - sister is still in England and her partner is up here to help with everything

Your FIL has the same rights as his sister to see them. Does she not trust your FIL?.
I don't think it's a matter of trust, just that sister is a very crafty person and has done similar things in the past (not on the same scale but enough that her own children now have nothing to do with her due to her conniving nature)

Can someone go to the house with FIL and talk about the splitting of the estate with his sister and funeral arrangements?  Whoever organises the funeral is liable for payment. Has the funeral been arranged or has it passed already?
I have volunteered to do this as emotions are running high in the rest of the family. The funeral hasn't been arranged yet as we are still awaiting the release of the death certificate from the council.

If sister organised the funeral then FIL will not be liable personally it will be her or the estate. If the estate is under 36k that does not necessarily mean that confirmation is not needed. If she had savings with NS&I or premium bonds they may request confirmation. 

If he thinks she is going to take all the money and disappear and he is not in any fit state to deal with it  given that this is probably the end of their relationship then personally I would walk away and if anyone chases for money give the sister’s address and say that he is not administering the estate but believes she may have dealt with it. 
I know and this is probably what would happen if it did all go wrong. FIL is such a lovely person though and I would hate to see anyone take advantage of him like that

I do hope he is wrong and that they both can just split the estate and agree on what has to be done to administer it. If your FIL doesn’t have any ID then he would probably have some trouble trying to apply for representation also.

thegreenone said:

Who actually registered the death?  In England, I had to have a telephone call with the Registrar and go through a series of questions and the certs. were posted to me, but I realise it may be different in Scotland but I would've thought on the same basis.

I agree that your partner and his brother need to get down to the bank with their Dad asap and explain the situation and phone the Council to ask.
Up here it seems to be that the hospital pass the paperwork to the council and they register the death 'by proxy' as they are not making appointments for someone to go in. The relevant death certificate is then passed to the funeral parlour where it is released to the family.

This is where I have suggested that partner/brother get to the bank with FIL first but FIL doesn't know who's details the council or funeral director have to make that initial contact - if it is the sister's then we are up a gum tree

Also, we spoke with a solicitor today but as there is no legal case at the moment there is nothing they can do to help. They advised it all comes down to who gets to the bank first. Money really brings out the worst in people

thegreenone

But you don't know until you go and ask.  All the time FIL is faffing (sorry, don't mean to be rude) he could miss out.  Get down to the Bank and ask to put a hold on the account as Sheramber advised.

GSS20

When my mum died during covid I still had to register the death over the phone although she died at home. Can your partner phone the registrar to see if the death has been registered and obtain a copy death certificate to take to the bank. Does your FIL get a pension or claim benefits. A benefits letter is proof of ID for the bank and also any bills including council tax etc. Without a death certificate I wouldn’t think his sister could go to the bank and get the money as I had to practically take a DNA test to register the death with the bank and that’s with the Will and a death certificate. Could your partner go to the house with FIL and search for the bank statements I would think FIL would have more right to be in the house than his sister’s partner or is he as unreasonable as his wife.