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Adding lintels above windows? Or timber framed?

greensalad
Posts: 2,530 Forumite


Hello,
Just heard back from the surveyor for our house purchase that we will likely need to replace UPVC windows. They have blown/condensation getting in (I understand that it's possible to just reglaze), but also there is some cracking above one window in particular, and apparently this is likely because the uPVC windows are not supportive enough. He said that though the cracking has only happened at one window location, it could definitely happen to the others.
Considering the uPVC windows are mid-80s, and are also quite sticky in places, I think it makes sense for us to just replace. Luckily it's only one storey of windows that need replacing.
My query is, I understand that timber windows are supportive enough to not normally require lintels, however uPVC is not. Is it possible to get stronger lintels inserted as part of the window installation? Would it be cheaper to get uPVC and lintels/support added, or better to just go for timber windows overall? I understand timber windows are generally more attractive but to be honest, every house on the close has aluminium (original) or uPVC so I think going for something immensely different would be odd.
Just trying to assess what sort of cost we're looking at so we can get this done ASAP as we want to decorate indoors and would rather have new windows in first.
Just heard back from the surveyor for our house purchase that we will likely need to replace UPVC windows. They have blown/condensation getting in (I understand that it's possible to just reglaze), but also there is some cracking above one window in particular, and apparently this is likely because the uPVC windows are not supportive enough. He said that though the cracking has only happened at one window location, it could definitely happen to the others.
Considering the uPVC windows are mid-80s, and are also quite sticky in places, I think it makes sense for us to just replace. Luckily it's only one storey of windows that need replacing.
My query is, I understand that timber windows are supportive enough to not normally require lintels, however uPVC is not. Is it possible to get stronger lintels inserted as part of the window installation? Would it be cheaper to get uPVC and lintels/support added, or better to just go for timber windows overall? I understand timber windows are generally more attractive but to be honest, every house on the close has aluminium (original) or uPVC so I think going for something immensely different would be odd.
Just trying to assess what sort of cost we're looking at so we can get this done ASAP as we want to decorate indoors and would rather have new windows in first.
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greensalad said: My query is, I understand that timber windows are supportive enough to not normally require lintels, however uPVC is not. Is it possible to get stronger lintels inserted as part of the window installation? Would it be cheaper to get uPVC and lintels/support added, or better to just go for timber windows overall?You don't say how old the house is...Quite likely that there is a concrete, stone, or timber lintel supporting the inner leaf of brickwork, and the original frame provided support for the outer leaf. Fitting a steel to support the outer leaf is possible, and it may be a simple job when replacing the window frame.Needed a lintel when I replaced a window here (1920s semi). I have timber reveals internally, and with them out of the way, a steel could be slipped in to place quite easily. Cost me about £100 if I remember correctly.If the brickwork above the window needed to be removed to insert a lintel, the time and cost would have been much higher. Had a contingency of £1,000 just in case... How much it is going to cost you depends very much on detail. Even with wooden frames, I'd still recommend having a lintel fitted.Her courage will change the world.
Treasure the moments that you have. Savour them for as long as you can for they will never come back again.0 -
FreeBear said:greensalad said: My query is, I understand that timber windows are supportive enough to not normally require lintels, however uPVC is not. Is it possible to get stronger lintels inserted as part of the window installation? Would it be cheaper to get uPVC and lintels/support added, or better to just go for timber windows overall?You don't say how old the house is...Quite likely that there is a concrete, stone, or timber lintel supporting the inner leaf of brickwork, and the original frame provided support for the outer leaf. Fitting a steel to support the outer leaf is possible, and it may be a simple job when replacing the window frame.Needed a lintel when I replaced a window here (1920s semi). I have timber reveals internally, and with them out of the way, a steel could be slipped in to place quite easily. Cost me about £100 if I remember correctly.If the brickwork above the window needed to be removed to insert a lintel, the time and cost would have been much higher. Had a contingency of £1,000 just in case... How much it is going to cost you depends very much on detail. Even with wooden frames, I'd still recommend having a lintel fitted.
I knew it would cost more, just hoping not loads more! It's 6 new windows needed, quite a few are large (classic 60s house with huge windows!) Good to hear that even with timber windows it'd still be recommended. I want to make sure I do the right thing by this house as a new home owner and not let things go into disrepair. However if we can replace with cheaper uPVC and still get the support needed then that will be ideal.0 -
Has the surveyor said there are no lintels or there might not be lintels?
Anyway, yes lintels can be retro fitted to cavity walls and are a piece of angle iron like this Birtley Standard Duty External Wall Lintel MBL 1650mm (buildingmaterials.co.uk)
A FENSA registered installer will be able to advise and quote but without checking they won't know. The check should be simple.Sorry I can't think of anything profound, clever or witty to write here.0 -
NSG666 said:Has the surveyor said there are no lintels or there might not be lintels?
Anyway, yes lintels can be retro fitted to cavity walls and are a piece of angle iron like this Birtley Standard Duty External Wall Lintel MBL 1650mm (buildingmaterials.co.uk)
A FENSA registered installer will be able to advise and quote but without checking they won't know. The check should be simple.
One concern I do have is that on the front of the house there is not much space above the windows. The eaves come right down over the top of the window, they are situated very high.
If lintels cannot be added, or are really cost-prohibitive to add, would a timber frame be a better option?0 -
He didn't specify, however I am waiting for the actual report and this was just the post-survey chat so I will see if its more explicit in the report. External lintels would be visible though, no?
One concern I do have is that on the front of the house there is not much space above the windows. The eaves come right down over the top of the window, they are situated very high.
If lintels cannot be added, or are really cost-prohibitive to add, would a timber frame be a better option?
In my old house there was a large kitchen window that had been replaced with UPVC and no lintel was fitted. From memory there were only two courses of bricks above the window but they had quite clearly sagged. Given you say the UPVC windows have been in since the 80s and there are no signs of sagging I'd have thought (and others might/will disagree) that it has lintels.
Ask the vendor whether it's ok to get a local window company to quote then you will know exactly where you stand.Sorry I can't think of anything profound, clever or witty to write here.0 -
NSG666 said:He didn't specify, however I am waiting for the actual report and this was just the post-survey chat so I will see if its more explicit in the report. External lintels would be visible though, no?
One concern I do have is that on the front of the house there is not much space above the windows. The eaves come right down over the top of the window, they are situated very high.
If lintels cannot be added, or are really cost-prohibitive to add, would a timber frame be a better option?
In my old house there was a large kitchen window that had been replaced with UPVC and no lintel was fitted. From memory there were only two courses of bricks above the window but they had quite clearly sagged. Given you say the UPVC windows have been in since the 80s and there are no signs of sagging I'd have thought (and others might/will disagree) that it has lintels.
When I visit the house again I will have a good look for any other sagging.0 -
greensalad said:
One concern I do have is that on the front of the house there is not much space above the windows. The eaves come right down over the top of the window, they are situated very high.
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stuart45 said:greensalad said:
One concern I do have is that on the front of the house there is not much space above the windows. The eaves come right down over the top of the window, they are situated very high.0 -
There is no guarantee that your house is exactly like that, but this was a common way to do the job. I have seen it done with a 4 inch lintel instead of a 6 inch one, and a course of cut headers laid on top of the frame to fill the gap over the cavity.
However these would drop out when the windows were replaced.0
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