Garden room seems to be taking forever.

Ectophile

If we can get somebody else to certify the electrical work then this takes some worry away from us as I don't think this builder will finish the job.

You may struggle to find an electrician to put their name on a certificate for work they had nothing to do with, and they don't know the person who did it.

priuklondon

Ectophile said:

If we can get somebody else to certify the electrical work then this takes some worry away from us as I don't think this builder will finish the job.

You may struggle to find an electrician to put their name on a certificate for work they had nothing to do with, and they don't know the person who did it.

I know. That is why we may not have any choice but to take legal action here. We plan to give him one more chance to settle this matter amicably by giving him 14 days or so to complete the outstanding work. Our solicitor will send him a letter stating this. If he fails to respond etc then we will employ another builder to complete the work and survey the work already performed. 
I have details of some of his other customers so I will check if the electric work was registered for their addresses as there is a website where you can check this. I know one other customer of this builder has been experiencing similar problems to us but I am willing to bet they not the only one.  

Thrugelmir

priuklondon said:

Section62 said:

priuklondon said:

We have requested that he provides a Electrical Installation Certificate as both him and his son performed the electrical work. He said that he would have someone else come in to do the sign off but my understanding is that it should be the electrician i.e. him and/or his son who should provide this. I don't think the person who would do the sign off works directly for him. He would just contract him to do the sign off. Surely this would be illegal right? Also on asking the builder for this certificate and querying this, he has now threatened to not complete the remaining work. 

On this point specifically, there is no absolute obligation for work to be 'signed off' by the person doing it.  E.g. a householder is perfectly entitled to DIY most electrical jobs, then 'employ' building control to complete the inspection and certification process.

So it wouldn't be illegal to contract in those aspects of the project, just as it is entirely in order for a builder to contract in structural engineering design, and almost any other part of a project.

Competence to carry out the work in the first place is more likely to be an issue.


On the other issues, builders are snowed under with work at present, Covid is still having an impact on working practices, as well as the availability of materials.  The weather recently has also not been ideal for construction work with it being interchangeably both too hot and too wet for a lot of activities.

If you get a solicitor involved you first need to have a clear idea of what it is you want to achieve. It will be one of the first questions a good one will ask you.  Terminating the contract with the builder won't assist in getting the project finished, especially if you cannot find another builder to take on a half-completed project (and especially not if they know there is ongoing legal action).

Have you reached a position where your relationship with the builder has irretrievably broken down? Accusing him of acting illegally (if that is what happened) might have done so, if your unhappiness with the quality and timeliness of his work hadn't already.

Do you want him to finish the job, or do you want to be free to get someone else to?

As mentioned in the original post we know that there have been some material shortages for example the composite cladding.

There's been a shortage of all sorts of materials and fittings. As Covid has wreaked havoc with production/manufacture and supply chains. There's no benefit to a builder in not finishing a job and getting paid for it. 

Rosa_Damascena

Thrugelmir said:

priuklondon said:

Section62 said:

priuklondon said:

We have requested that he provides a Electrical Installation Certificate as both him and his son performed the electrical work. He said that he would have someone else come in to do the sign off but my understanding is that it should be the electrician i.e. him and/or his son who should provide this. I don't think the person who would do the sign off works directly for him. He would just contract him to do the sign off. Surely this would be illegal right? Also on asking the builder for this certificate and querying this, he has now threatened to not complete the remaining work. 

On this point specifically, there is no absolute obligation for work to be 'signed off' by the person doing it.  E.g. a householder is perfectly entitled to DIY most electrical jobs, then 'employ' building control to complete the inspection and certification process.

So it wouldn't be illegal to contract in those aspects of the project, just as it is entirely in order for a builder to contract in structural engineering design, and almost any other part of a project.

Competence to carry out the work in the first place is more likely to be an issue.


On the other issues, builders are snowed under with work at present, Covid is still having an impact on working practices, as well as the availability of materials.  The weather recently has also not been ideal for construction work with it being interchangeably both too hot and too wet for a lot of activities.

If you get a solicitor involved you first need to have a clear idea of what it is you want to achieve. It will be one of the first questions a good one will ask you.  Terminating the contract with the builder won't assist in getting the project finished, especially if you cannot find another builder to take on a half-completed project (and especially not if they know there is ongoing legal action).

Have you reached a position where your relationship with the builder has irretrievably broken down? Accusing him of acting illegally (if that is what happened) might have done so, if your unhappiness with the quality and timeliness of his work hadn't already.

Do you want him to finish the job, or do you want to be free to get someone else to?

As mentioned in the original post we know that there have been some material shortages for example the composite cladding.

There's been a shortage of all sorts of materials and fittings. As Covid has wreaked havoc with production/manufacture and supply chains. There's no benefit to a builder in not finishing a job and getting paid for it. 

What the OP is describing her is a breach of trust. If the builder was reliable and was truthful with the OP all this uncertainty would be avoided.

Section62

priuklondon said:

I know. That is why we may not have any choice but to take legal action here. We plan to give him one more chance to settle this matter amicably by giving him 14 days or so to complete the outstanding work. Our solicitor will send him a letter stating this. If he fails to respond etc then we will employ another builder to complete the work and survey the work already performed.

I suspect the builder is not going to regard a letter from your solicitor as an amicable attempt to resolve the matter.  It will probably bring things to a head though, and allow you to move on to finding a different builder to complete the project.

What is the current state of things?  Have you paid for all the work done, is there any payment outstanding? Does the builder have any of his tools and equipment still on your property?  Is there a skip full of rubbish on your driveway?

priuklondon said:

I have details of some of his other customers so I will check if the electric work was registered for their addresses as there is a website where you can check this. I know one other customer of this builder has been experiencing similar problems to us but I am willing to bet they not the only one.  

By all means discretely check the status of other work he has done, but bear in mind his other customers may not be appreciative of that, or anything you do which brings into question the legality of the work he has done on their property. Some people simply don't care whether or not their builder is qualified or competent to do the work they are hiring one for.

In your situation I'd be torn, part of me thinks this is a potential safety issue and others need to be made aware there could be problems, the other part thinks people won't appreciate a knock on the door from building control and a large bill for rectification work.

Also, beware of using SM to complain about the builder and sharing your experiences with others.  Builders also use SM, and you need to find one willing to take on a project the previous builder has been sacked from. On the whole it is better if the incoming builder doesn't find out or hear the full horror story, only the bits necessary for them to price the job and decide whether or not to take it on.

koalakoala

You may not find it so easy to get another builder involved now !

priuklondon

koalakoala said:

You may not find it so easy to get another builder involved now !

I think that the remaining part of the job is only 3-4 days work for any builder. 

In terms of material costs, I estimate about £2,000. And yes this was paid already so my bad.

TBH I think that some of this work I can probably finish myself. I have also spoken to another builder that I have used in the past (I would have considered him for the original job but he had many other jobs on at the time) and he said he can help complete what's left. He will also survey the work performed by the original builder. 

The complete job was over £20k so compared to others, I guess I am fortunate.

One of his other customers did actually reach out to us and they are facing problems with this builder too. He has stopped answering their calls too. 

I guess that if the new builder finds any faults when he takes on the work then it would make sense to go down the legal path so that the original builder is made to absorb the costs of making good. 

Rosa_Damascena

priuklondon said:

koalakoala said:

You may not find it so easy to get another builder involved now !

I think that the remaining part of the job is only 3-4 days work for any builder. 

In terms of material costs, I estimate about £2,000. And yes this was paid already so my bad.

TBH I think that some of this work I can probably finish myself. I have also spoken to another builder that I have used in the past (I would have considered him for the original job but he had many other jobs on at the time) and he said he can help complete what's left. He will also survey the work performed by the original builder. 

The complete job was over £20k so compared to others, I guess I am fortunate.

One of his other customers did actually reach out to us and they are facing problems with this builder too. He has stopped answering their calls too. 

I guess that if the new builder finds any faults when he takes on the work then it would make sense to go down the legal path so that the original builder is made to absorb the costs of making good. 

It's madness to have paid someone to do the work and then end up doing it yourself! 

I'm not referring to you as being mad btw, but the situation is.

Section62

priuklondon said:

I guess that if the new builder finds any faults when he takes on the work then it would make sense to go down the legal path so that the original builder is made to absorb the costs of making good. 

This is part of the problem with a mid-project change of builder.

It isn't necessarily just the cost of finishing the work, the 'new' builder should be making sure they are happy with the starting point, because any latent (or obvious) defects will impact on the quality and durability of their work, for which they are responsible.

The cost of investigating and removing defective work is surprisingly high.  If you do go 'legal' you will need careful documentation (especially photos) of what is defective and what work was required to rectify it.

Bear in mind there are many aspects of building and construction which are subjective. One builder saying "I wouldn't have done it that way" isn't proof that the first builder was wrong. It can just be a difference of opinion with no legal/factual basis. (there's a recent very long thread about tiling which explores this issue in depth)

And litigation is risky and unpredictable, so don't assume you will be successful in reclaiming costs from the first builder. As well as documentation, you also need to think carefully about whether each item of rectification work is necessary and reasonable - it absolutely isn't a 'blank cheque' to get the project completed to a higher standard than you were paying the previous builder to do. (not saying you would, but this is a commonly made mistake).

priuklondon

Section62 said:

priuklondon said:

I guess that if the new builder finds any faults when he takes on the work then it would make sense to go down the legal path so that the original builder is made to absorb the costs of making good. 

This is part of the problem with a mid-project change of builder.

It isn't necessarily just the cost of finishing the work, the 'new' builder should be making sure they are happy with the starting point, because any latent (or obvious) defects will impact on the quality and durability of their work, for which they are responsible.

The cost of investigating and removing defective work is surprisingly high.  If you do go 'legal' you will need careful documentation (especially photos) of what is defective and what work was required to rectify it.

Bear in mind there are many aspects of building and construction which are subjective. One builder saying "I wouldn't have done it that way" isn't proof that the first builder was wrong. It can just be a difference of opinion with no legal/factual basis. (there's a recent very long thread about tiling which explores this issue in depth)

And litigation is risky and unpredictable, so don't assume you will be successful in reclaiming costs from the first builder. As well as documentation, you also need to think carefully about whether each item of rectification work is necessary and reasonable - it absolutely isn't a 'blank cheque' to get the project completed to a higher standard than you were paying the previous builder to do. (not saying you would, but this is a commonly made mistake).

Would it make sense for an independent surveyor to come and check the build over?Not too dissimilar to what a surveyor would do if you are buying a new house.  If the survey identifies any significant problems then its up to the new builder to confirm whether he is able to address and complete the build and/or use legal remedy to have the original builder rectify.  If the survey does not find any obvious problems then at least there will some comfort that the structure will not collapse on me one day.