1.0 litre engines

jimbo6977

In the Alps you'll find a prevalence of beaten up Fiat Pandas, Subaru Swifts / Vivios, Suzuki 410s and other small engined models.

Herzlos

NBLondon said:

I notice a lot of people mentioning you might have to change gears to get up a steep hill.    To me this is stating the bleeding obvious...   Are there so many people who haven't grasped this and really think they should do everything in 4th?

It's not actually that obvious if you're used to a more powerful car.

Back when I had a 2.5l I'd often be able to do hills in the same gear and got surprised by the smaller cars in front slowing down so drastically. The biggest thing I'd seen when changing to a car with drastically less torque is much more you needed to change gear in general. Hills I could take in 4th in my 2.5l needed 2nd in my 1.5l, for instance.

The same sort of applies to preservation of speed; you need to work harder to maintain speed in a less powerful car, because it'll slow down a lot faster on hills.

But once you get used to it, it's really not an issue. Just don't forget when you're trying to do an overtake and then nothing happens

NBLondon

BOWFER said:

NBLondon said:

Or the car tells them...  My Focus tries to tell me to change up at certain points - allegedly for best fuel consumption - but I apply common sense and reading the road ahead as well.

there's nothing 'allegedly' about it, revs are the enemy of MPG and keeping the revs low will absolutely make a difference.
So these recommended gearchange points are well thought out.
Of course you're free to ignore them, I do.

Well thought out on the basis of cruising on flat clear roads maybe...   Not so good for driving in traffic when you can see that you will likely be in the higher gear for around 3 seconds before changing down again.  Or on winding and hilly country roads.

Having learnt to drive in the 1980s; I was taught to do it by engine note...

Nebulous2

BOWFER said:

Nebulous2 said:

NBLondon said:

I notice a lot of people mentioning you might have to change gears to get up a steep hill.    To me this is stating the bleeding obvious...   Are there so many people who haven't grasped this and really think they should do everything in 4th?

Those small high-revving turbo engines need more gear changes than traditional cars. 

This is too simplistic a view, it all depends on the power and torque of the 1.0 engine.
For example, the same 1.0 turbo engine in a VW Polo can range from 80bhp to 115bhp, with the subsequent increases in torque too.
I'm not sure what you mean by a 'traditional car', presumably a normally aspirated engine (non turbo).
These wee turbo engines are putting out as much torque a much bigger NA engine.
You might feel the need to drive them hard, but they don't need driving hard and offer more than enough performance for most.
It's a sign of the times that we turn our nose up at 100bhp now, when that used to be considered a pretty sporty power level.

Some of it has to do with power and torque, but in the example I gave about having to change down when slowing down to a walking pace at a junction it is to do with the mass of the moving parts in the engine. A smaller flywheel, fewer cylinders, lighter moving components within the engine are all designed to save fuel, but change the characteristics of how the car drives. 

By a traditional car I mean the ones I drove for over 30 years, before I ended up with a sub 1 litre car, so traditional to me! The salesman said to me you really should give it a try before refusing to consider these small engines, and he was right. He also pointed out on the test drive that I was likely to need to go down to first where I hadn't before, and he was right about that as well.  

I used to regard a 1.6 as a small car, and some of my fondest memories of driving  was a 2.2 litre 5 cylinder Audi estate. Most of my cars were normally aspirated.  

Whatcar says a 1.0 is fine, but comments that you will need more frequent gear changes. 

Is a 1.0-litre engine big enough? | What Car?

Ectophile

NBLondon said:

BOWFER said:

NBLondon said:

Or the car tells them...  My Focus tries to tell me to change up at certain points - allegedly for best fuel consumption - but I apply common sense and reading the road ahead as well.

there's nothing 'allegedly' about it, revs are the enemy of MPG and keeping the revs low will absolutely make a difference.
So these recommended gearchange points are well thought out.
Of course you're free to ignore them, I do.

Well thought out on the basis of cruising on flat clear roads maybe...   Not so good for driving in traffic when you can see that you will likely be in the higher gear for around 3 seconds before changing down again.  Or on winding and hilly country roads.

Having learnt to drive in the 1980s; I was taught to do it by engine note...

That works until you get a car with a quieter engine.  Many's the time I have found myself cruising down the motorway in 4th gear because I couldn't hear the engine over the road noise.

BOWFER

Ectophile said:

That works until you get a car with a quieter engine.  Many's the time I have found myself cruising down the motorway in 4th gear because I couldn't hear the engine over the road noise.

You will (probably) have a rev counter that will show you you're doing too many revs for the speed.
And possibly a display telling to you to change up too.
The position of the gear stick also shows you.
Really, it's a strange lack of awareness to drive around in too low a gear on a motorway, it baffles me as to how you couldn't know you're not in 5th (or 6th)

Steve182

A friend of mine had a 28hp bus in his barn. It didn't run during his ownership but apparently when it was in service in the 40's and 50's it was normal for the passengers to have to get out to push it up hills.

How times have changed!

Money_Grabber13579

What was the engine size in the Fiat 500 that wouldn’t go up hills?

Ectophile

BOWFER said:

Ectophile said:

That works until you get a car with a quieter engine.  Many's the time I have found myself cruising down the motorway in 4th gear because I couldn't hear the engine over the road noise.

You will (probably) have a rev counter that will show you you're doing too many revs for the speed.
And possibly a display telling to you to change up too.
The position of the gear stick also shows you.
Really, it's a strange lack of awareness to drive around in too low a gear on a motorway, it baffles me as to how you couldn't know you're not in 5th (or 6th)

Why would I be looking at the rev counter while driving?  I check the speedometer from time to time, and spend most of the time looking out of the windows.

I never look at the gearstick position while driving.  That would involve looking downwards, and would be a dangerous thing to do at motorway speeds.

The car in question has a 5 speed box.  It is perfectly cabable of cruising along at 70 MPH in 4th gear.  Since it's only a little 1.2 litre engine, I often have to knock it down to 4th on hills, or to overtake.

Goudy

Money_Grabber13579 said:

What was the engine size in the Fiat 500 that wouldn’t go up hills?

That was the FIRE 1242cc euro 6 engine.
The problem wasn't the engine, as in all the reports, owners of the previous versions had no problems and this engine has been around since the mid '80's.

It was the mapping on the euro 6 that was the issue.
Fiat reigned it in when it was at it's least efficient ie, pulling away so it was down on torque at low revs compared to the euro 5.

They also fiddled with the clutch switch setting so it controlled fuelling/rpm itself when the clutch pedal was lifted, this meant it crept away off the line a little more efficiently. 

Trouble was owners, particurlarly the ones used to the older set up (which were the ones complaining) didn't like this reduced torque and rpm interferance when pulling away and tended to clog the throttle hard themselves, this opens up the throttle body to extra air but the ECU has still got hold of the fuelling, so it all bogs down.

We ran a euro 5 and 6 side by side and I've also had every version since the mid 80's and once you got used to letting the euro 6 sort itself out a fraction of a second by lifting the clutch before you hit the gas and accelerated, it was fine.

Most modern cars do this clutch thing.
When I learnt to drive it was all about setting revs and clutch bite yourself, when our lad learnt a few years ago, his instructor laughed when I mentioned it, he said why teach something the car does itself.

Now most modern cars response themselves when lifting the clutch and when it's moving,  you take control of the throttle. They'll do this even on steep hills.