Universal Credit Tribunal irregularity

NE12

Alice_Holt said:

NE12 said:

Can we take a guess at what the Procedural irregularity actually was? 

      There is absolutely no point in worrying about that.

   However, it is very important that you and your wife prepare for the new hearing. It's your chance of getting the disputed DWP decision overturned.


   Do you understand the LCW and LCWRA descriptors and the LCW points system?

  How and why should your wife have been assessed as not fit for work?

  Have you looked at the links I supplied you with (in particular the advice now guide) ?    

I understand them quite well, as I've dealt with it for my son since he was little.  First DLA then PIP and now LCWRA.

As for my wife though, she wouldn't let me help with the UC50, as she said I'd write stuff she didn't want them to know.  I stupidly allowed her to fill it in, which was left until the last second. 

When I got a copy of the documents, I seen how she'd filled in the UC50.  She'd not understood the form at all, as she filled most of it in incorrectly.  For her Tribunal I got a copy of her medical records, and it stated she'd been diagnosed as a child as having a learning disability, and it explained a lot. 

I tried to use that in the Tribunal to explain why some of it is filled in incorrectly.  For instance she said no to coping with change, when obviously she has a problem with it.  I said for instance appointments are difficult as she stresses out over them, and when they cancel or change suddenly she freaks out, because she has to go through it again.  I also gave a scenario of my wife being told by the jobcentre she had to travel somewhere on her own, and said she'd not be able to cope with that change to her routine.  I pointed out that she was given 9 points in her Fit for work assessment for not being able to travel on her own without the assistance of another person.  I said that and coping with change go hand in hand. 

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

poppy12345

NE12 said:

Alice_Holt said:

NE12 said:

Can we take a guess at what the Procedural irregularity actually was? 

      There is absolutely no point in worrying about that.

   However, it is very important that you and your wife prepare for the new hearing. It's your chance of getting the disputed DWP decision overturned.


   Do you understand the LCW and LCWRA descriptors and the LCW points system?

  How and why should your wife have been assessed as not fit for work?

  Have you looked at the links I supplied you with (in particular the advice now guide) ?    

I understand them quite well, as I've dealt with it for my son since he was little.  First DLA then PIP and now LCWRA.

It's worth remembering that PIP and DLA and LCWRA/LCW are all completely different benefits. It's also not really about a diagnosis, it's how those conditions affect your ability to do any type of work. DLA and PIP are disabililty benefits and have nothing to do with your ability to work.

Spoonie_Turtle

NE12 said:

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

Have these had any additional effect on any of the relevant areas assessed for LCW/RA?  If not then you only need the correct decision from her previous assessment, there's no need to have another assessment (although if you've put in a new form I'm not sure there's anything you can do to stop it).  

That said, if she was assessed as Fit for Work then submitting fit notes until you get the correct decision is indeed necessary.

poppy12345

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NE12 said:

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

Have these had any additional effect on any of the relevant areas assessed for LCW/RA?  If not then you only need the correct decision from her previous assessment, there's no need to have another assessment (although if you've put in a new form I'm not sure there's anything you can do to stop it).  

That said, if she was assessed as Fit for Work then submitting fit notes until you get the correct decision is indeed necessary.

A worsening of condition was reported and more WCA assessment forms were received, as previously stated.

NE12

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NE12 said:

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

Have these had any additional effect on any of the relevant areas assessed for LCW/RA?  If not then you only need the correct decision from her previous assessment, there's no need to have another assessment (although if you've put in a new form I'm not sure there's anything you can do to stop it).  

That said, if she was assessed as Fit for Work then submitting fit notes until you get the correct decision is indeed necessary.

I'm not to sure if the diabetes is having any kind of effect or not.  She's currently on the waiting list for physiotherapy, as she's having shoulder problems, and tingling going down her arm and into her hands.  She was prescribed naproxen and codeine, and neither had any effect, so she's been referred.   That may or may not be linked to the diabetes. 

Her doctor is pretty much useless in my opinion.  She never seems to want to help her get to the bottom of her conditions.  All she ever offered her was talking therapy which left her worse.

After she was declared fit for work,  Universal Credit said she had to declare a new condition, for them to even do a mandatory reconsideration.  She'd just been diagnosed as diabetic type 2, so I had to show them proof of that. 

We've still been handing in new fit notes like every 4 weeks.

I've also messaged her work coach to ask for advice on what to do regarding the fit for work assessment, as now this Tribunal complicates things.

poppy12345

NE12 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NE12 said:

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

Have these had any additional effect on any of the relevant areas assessed for LCW/RA?  If not then you only need the correct decision from her previous assessment, there's no need to have another assessment (although if you've put in a new form I'm not sure there's anything you can do to stop it).  

That said, if she was assessed as Fit for Work then submitting fit notes until you get the correct decision is indeed necessary.

After she was declared fit for work,  Universal Credit said she had to declare a new condition, for them to even do a mandatory reconsideration.

That makes no sense at all and is not correct.

calcotti

What they may have said is that there would need to be a new condition for them to carry out a new WCA.

Alice_Holt

poppy12345 said

NE12 said:

 so she asked them to change it to paper based.

 This ^^ would not have helped. Paper based decision's at Tribunal stage have a less than 10% success rate. For the next hearing your wife needs to make sure she attends, regardless of whether this is in person or by telephone.

Please do look at the links provided because if you don't fully understand descriptors then you're going to find yourselves stuck in a vicious circle. It's also never to late to get representation... start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

     
    OP - I'm not clear what written evidence has been submitted to HMCTS by yourself and your wife in support of your imminent appeal.

      Have you / your wife prepared a statement explaining why and how your wife should qualify ?

      Does the DWP appeal paperwork include previous WCA's where your wife was placed in a not fit for work group ?


 If not, then a paper based hearing is unlikely to change the decision in your favour, as -
   i)  A poorly written UC50 form (that does not identify the necessary 15 points) will not provide the panel with sufficient evidence to overturn the DWP decision;
  ii)  The DWP assessment and written submission will (obviously) support their decision that your wife is fit for work.

 You have quoted the medical conditions that your wife experiences.  A WCA decision is based on the descriptors not diagnosis.  You need to fully explain how and why (for your wife) these conditions impact on the WCA descriptors in any submission to the panel, and back it up with medical evidence (if possible). 
  In effect a written version of the examples, e.g. coping with change, you tried to make aurally to the first tribunal.

 Looking at what you have written on this thread, I would strongly advise you to follow poppy's link and my link and support your wife to get help from an advice agency.   


  

NE12

poppy12345 said:

NE12 said:

Spoonie_Turtle said:

NE12 said:

At the time of her Fit for work assessment her conditions were: Underactive Thyroid, OAB, Agaraphobia, Anxiety & Depression. After the assessment, but before the Tribunal she was then diagnosed as also being Pre-Diabetic, and then Type 2.

Have these had any additional effect on any of the relevant areas assessed for LCW/RA?  If not then you only need the correct decision from her previous assessment, there's no need to have another assessment (although if you've put in a new form I'm not sure there's anything you can do to stop it).  

That said, if she was assessed as Fit for Work then submitting fit notes until you get the correct decision is indeed necessary.

After she was declared fit for work,  Universal Credit said she had to declare a new condition, for them to even do a mandatory reconsideration.

That makes no sense at all and is not correct.

That's what I said to them on the phone, that she has a right for it to be looked at again, but I was told no you'll need to provide us with some new evidence for us to look at it again.  I said well she's just been diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes, and he said that'll certainly qualify as new evidence, and sent a link to the universal credit for us to upload the document. 

NE12

Alice_Holt said:

poppy12345 said

NE12 said:

 so she asked them to change it to paper based.

 This ^^ would not have helped. Paper based decision's at Tribunal stage have a less than 10% success rate. For the next hearing your wife needs to make sure she attends, regardless of whether this is in person or by telephone.

Please do look at the links provided because if you don't fully understand descriptors then you're going to find yourselves stuck in a vicious circle. It's also never to late to get representation... start here. https://advicelocal.uk/

     
    OP - I'm not clear what written evidence has been submitted to HMCTS by yourself and your wife in support of your imminent appeal.

      Have you / your wife prepared a statement explaining why and how your wife should qualify ?

      Does the DWP appeal paperwork include previous WCA's where your wife was placed in a not fit for work group ?


 If not, then a paper based hearing is unlikely to change the decision in your favour, as -
   i)  A poorly written UC50 form (that does not identify the necessary 15 points) will not provide the panel with sufficient evidence to overturn the DWP decision;
  ii)  The DWP assessment and written submission will (obviously) support their decision that your wife is fit for work.

 You have quoted the medical conditions that your wife experiences.  A WCA decision is based on the descriptors not diagnosis.  You need to fully explain how and why (for your wife) these conditions impact on the WCA descriptors in any submission to the panel, and back it up with medical evidence (if possible). 
  In effect a written version of the examples, e.g. coping with change, you tried to make aurally to the first tribunal.

 Looking at what you have written on this thread, I would strongly advise you to follow poppy's link and my link and support your wife to get help from an advice agency.   


  

For her Tribunal I went into great detail on each descriptor on why I think she's not fit for work.  I gave many examples of what her daily life is like, and what it would be like if she was forcibly pushed into doing things she's not capable of doing, and that I felt which would result in many sanctions.  I also wrote a lengthy statement.

My wife has never been in a not fit for work group, as I've always been my son's carer, and claimed Income Support.  So my wife was never asked to attend the job centre.  I've basically been her unofficial carer since her problems began way back in 2004/05.

The problem started when I was waiting for my son's new PIP renewal to be completed, and they took so long with it, that our Income Support ended.  We had to go onto Universal Credit, and that's when it started.  My son's PIP claim was renewed, but by then I was told no you can't go back onto Income Support.

I'm going to contact Citizens Advice on Monday when they open.