PCN for parking in visitor bay while using a Company Car

Skraivok

Hi, it would be great if someone could provide some clarification on how to proceed

I visited a friend in a private apartment block and parked in a clearly designated visitor bay (denoted with V ) and received a windscreen notification (labelled a privacy notice) on the 3rd July. The lease company that provides my company car received a postal PCN with an issue date of 19th July and informed me on the 22nd July by email. They advised the PCN issuing company ( Vehicle Control Services Ltd)  that I was the keeper and supplied a name and address on the 22nd July (but haven't sent and copy of the hire agreement).

Do I wait until I receive the postal notice to keeper before appealing, or do I appeal within the first 2 weeks from date of the initial issue to the lease company as advised on the Newbies FAQ's?

For POFA compliance would the NTK have to arrive between day 29 and 57 from the date of the offence (3rd jury) or issue date of the PCN to the leasing company (19th July).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated !

Redx

You need to read the bottom of the first post in that newbies FAQ sticky thread near the top of the forum in announcements , reading the Edna basher advice

If the hire company were given your details as day to day keeper , the lessee ( hirer ) , then VCS should send you a postal notice which we call a Notice To Hirer ( NTH ). VCS have no Idea who was driving so Keep it that way

POFA has a specific section for lease , hire and company vehicles , With different timescales than those applying to a registered keeper , so read the appropriate section

AFAIK VCS have never complied with POFA anyway , but if or when you do appeal to VCS they will reject it , regardless

These companies rarely , if ever , issue the hire docs with an NTH , so they assume that the keeper and driver are the same person

Coupon-mad

You should wait to get a NTH but it won’t include the attachments para 14 of the POFA require.  If you hear nothing appeal anyway within 2 weeks and tell the hire firm you have done do and NOT TO PAY if they get another chaser letter. 

Then go through the futile motions (a phrase used by an IPC firm in an email) if the kangaroo court of IAS appeal as hirer.

Skraivok

Many thanks to Redx and Coupon-mad for the advice. I'll await the notification.

Coupon-mad

Except I added ‘but if you hear nothing...’

Skraivok

Just a brief update, I received a "Notice to Driver" issued on the 30/07/2021 and not a Notice to Hirer. 

I was going to do the initial appeal using one of Edna's templates (but make no mention of driver) -  " I am the vehicle's hirer and keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definitions under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 etc etc and claim the single is unclear (doesn't delineate between visitor bays and resident bays or how to obtain a permit) + policy with the landowner or on site businesses, to cancel such a charge.

Following the inevitable rejection I was then going to wait until the letter before court. I just wondered if my course of action remains the same since I have received a Notice to Driver?

Fruitcake

Yes, respond as hirer/lessee, and refer to the letter you received as a NTH.

Skraivok

Hi all,

Yesterday I received my “Letter before claim” from VCS, with response options. It gives me 30 days from the date at the top of the enclosed letter to fill in and return the form. Debt collection charge has now been included of £60

 After re-reading the parking thread as I understand it, I’m to ignore the reply form and send a SAR to their Data protection officer. In addition to what requested on the SAR in the Newbies thread,  do I also request the items from paragraph 13(2) of POFA 2012, a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire , copy of hire agreement, copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer etc). I checked with the leasing company responsible for my company car and VCS have not come back to them to request this.

In addition should I also request an unredacted copy of VCS’s contract with the landholder that demonstrates that VCS have the authority of the landowner to issue parking charges? Or should these items be requested once court action is confirmed?

D_P_Dance

 Debt collection charge has now been included of £60

They have added what appears to be an extra unlawful amount for debt collection. Judges have dismissed an entire claim because of this. Read this and complain to your MP.

Excel v Wilkinson

At the Bradford County Court, District Judge Claire Jackson (now HHJ Jackson, a Specialist Civil Circuit Judge) decided to hear a 'test case' a few months ago, where £60 had been added to a parking charge despite Judges up and down the country repeatedly disallowing that sum and warning parking firms not to waste court time with such spurious claims.   That case was Excel v Wilkinson: G4QZ465V, heard in July 2020 and leave to appeal was refused and that route was not pursued.  The Judge concluded that such claims are proceedings with 'an improper collateral purpose'.   This Judge - and others who have since copied her words and struck dozens of cases out in late 2020 and into 2021 - went into significant detail and concluded that parking operators (such as this Claimant) are seeking to circumvent CPR 27.14 as well as breaching the Consumer Rights Act 2015.   DJ Hickinbottom has recently struck more cases out in that court area, stating: ''I find that striking out this claim is the only appropriate manner in which the disapproval of the court can be shown''.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/16qovzulab1szem/G4QZ465V%20Excel%20v%20Wilkinson.pdf?dl=0

Also read this

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279348/witness-statements-2-transcripts-re-parking-firms-false-costs-recorder-cohen-qc-judgment-2021/p1

Le_Kirk

Skraivok said:

Hi all,

Yesterday I received my “Letter before claim” from VCS, with response options. It gives me 30 days from the date at the top of the enclosed letter to fill in and return the form. Debt collection charge has now been included of £60

 After re-reading the parking thread as I understand it, I’m to ignore the reply form and send a SAR to their Data protection officer. In addition to what requested on the SAR in the Newbies thread,  do I also request the items from paragraph 13(2) of POFA 2012, a statement signed by or on behalf of the vehicle-hire , copy of hire agreement, copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer etc). I checked with the leasing company responsible for my company car and VCS have not come back to them to request this.

In addition should I also request an unredacted copy of VCS’s contract with the landholder that demonstrates that VCS have the authority of the landowner to issue parking charges? Or should these items be requested once court action is confirmed?

No, why would you give them the heads up?  If they fail to send that documentation, this is a win and they failed POFA.  You won't get a copy of the contract at this stage, they will refuse but you should put it in your defence when it gets to that stage that the "claimant is put to strict proof that a contract exists between them and the landholder/landowner".

Coupon-mad

What happened to your IAS appeal as hirer?