Post Brexit Pension Transfer - How to Get the Required Advice.....

Essex_Traveller

Apologies in advance if my frustration comes through in this post.....

Before Brexit came to pass, we decided to make the move to Italy and become residents.  I am still a Tax Resident in the UK but my residency is Italy.

As part of Brexit, there was no agreement for Financial Services which means they are unable to passport their services over the Pond and provide advice to EU residents, even if they are UK citizens.

I am trying to transfer 2 DB schemes to my SIPP - one is valued at £93K and the other at £33K. I am 49. Neither of these schemes are performing particulalry well (either standing still or matching inflation).

Both of these transfers require me to demonstrate that I have received financial advice from an FCA 'approved' FA.

I am amazed that both pension administrators and the supporting organisationsa are unware of the above point on passporting - I either get responses saying, we know its difficult to find an FA but keep going !! or its a LEGAL REQUIREMENT you must do it, type of messages. 

I asked the FCA to provide a list of FA's who could passport their services to the EU and they said they 'could not do that' which is interesting because they (used to) administer the passporting process....oddly, they also suggested an Italian FA could provide the review which is not something an Italian FA would do and thats before we consider they are not 'approved' by the FCA.

The Money Helper Service said they did not see the problem with FA's providing me with advice because its a UK product......and you must get this advice, keep calling around.

The Pensions Ombudsman has said its not the sort of problem they would get involved in - but you really must get this advice and they need to be approved by the FCA.

Its crazy making - the passporting point has been ignored by them all when I have asked them to clarify the point.

I even emailed the whole list of FA's who are 'approved' to provide financial advice on the Money Helper Service website and gave them the background. They have either said we would not advise you or have been a bit clearer and said, we can't advise you for the reasons outlined in your email.

So, I am stuck and the organisations I thought might be able to help don't seem to read what I write or just ignoring it and continue to repeat the mantra 'must get advice'.

Any ideas on how to progress please ?

Many thanks.

dunstonh

I am trying to transfer 2 DB schemes to my SIPP - one is valued at £93K and the other at £33K. I am 49. Neither of these schemes are performing particulalry well (either standing still or matching inflation).

DB pensions do not have performance.  They are based on defined benefits.

I am amazed that both pension administrators and the supporting organisationsa are unware of the above point on passporting - I either get responses saying, we know its difficult to find an FA but keep going !! or its a LEGAL REQUIREMENT you must do it, type of messages. 

It doesn't cease to be a legal requirement just because you are no longer resident in the UK.

I asked the FCA to provide a list of FA's who could passport their services to the EU and they said they 'could not do that' which is interesting because they (used to) administer the passporting process....oddly, they also suggested an Italian FA could provide the review which is not something an Italian FA would do and thats before we consider they are not 'approved' by the FCA.

No-one can passport services to the EU as the EU has refused to allow passporting and it has been withdrawn for UK firms.

You need to use a financial adviser resident in the country you are in or has regulatory permissions with the Italian regulatory body.  That would include some UK firms catering for the UK expat market.   However, the numbers are going to be limited.  Could well be limited to a handful of firms.

So, I am stuck and the organisations I thought might be able to help don't seem to read what I write or just ignoring it and continue to repeat the mantra 'must get advice'.

They are not ignoring it.    It's just that you are in a situation that puts you a in tiny minority that was not foreseen and not yet resolved.   It was hoped that the EU would see common sense and grant UK firms passporting permissions.  However, it is being bloody-minded and that isn't going to happen now.   However, even in the days of passporting, your options were still limited as the majority of advice firms did not hold passporting permissions.  Again, it was mainly the ex-pat focused firms.

There is a secondary issue that you haven't considered.     All the known SIPP providers in the UK will not accept a transfer in unless the advice is to transfer the DB pensions or it is transacted through the agency of the adviser.   So, even if you get over the first hurdle, you may find yourself blocked with the second one.

etienneg

As dunstonh has said, DB schemes do not perform (either well or badly). What you get from them is defined already, so that's what you should be looking at. Hence, your reason for seeking to transfer to your SIPP is flawed. It may well be best to keep them for the defined benefits they will provide, which will also save you all the hassle of transferring.

Marcon

Essex_Traveller said:

I am trying to transfer 2 DB schemes to my SIPP - one is valued at £93K and the other at £33K. I am 49. Neither of these schemes are performing particulalry well (either standing still or matching inflation).

Any ideas on how to progress please ?

Given the above posts, by now the penny should have dropped that DB scheme performance doesn't matter a jot to you. Your benefits are set out in the scheme rules; it's the lucky old (ex)employer who has to make sure there's enough cash in the pot to provide them. So why not reconsider your thought processes and see two DB schemes as building blocks for your retirement benefits, rather than things which are causing you endless frustration?

Albermarle

If you spent some time reading the many posts on DB transfers on this forum, you would realise it is not that much easier getting the needed financial advice , even if you live in the UK .
If you do it is expensive ( a few grand for each one ) and likely to get a negative recommendation . At which point you are pretty much stuck and significantly out of pocket. 

Suggest you leave them were they are , save yourself a lot of stress, and enjoy the Buona Vita !

Essex_Traveller

dunstonh said:

I am trying to transfer 2 DB schemes to my SIPP - one is valued at £93K and the other at £33K. I am 49. Neither of these schemes are performing particulalry well (either standing still or matching inflation).

DB pensions do not have performance.  They are based on defined benefits.

+ everyone else who responded.

Crikey - tough crowd.

So the amount I would receive as income is approximately 1.3% of my current CETV.

I understand this is guaranteed but I think I can do better than 1.3% in terms of income (and have done in my SIPP for the last 5 years) as well working to increase the capital value (as I have done in my SIPP by being quite conservative).

Regarding your point about getting advice from Italy,this is not possible because the advice is meant to by an FCA approved adviser and the FCA does not cover Italy.

When I say they are ignoring my point - to clarify, I have asked them to confirm whether my point about passporting is correct or not - that has definitely been ignored and instead, they encourage me to keep calling FA's because 'it does take some time to find someone to transfer your pension to the EU (which I am not even trying to do)'. You and I both agree that I will not be finding anyone because passporting is no more.

To your point about the legal requirement not changing because it cannot be realised - this is part of the same law that states I have the right to transfer my pension and this law does not change because I am a British citizen residing in Europe.

I did spend a lot of time reading this forum before posting my circumstances.

I appreciate you all taking the time to respond - I am not looking to leave them where they are although I understand you think its for the best / an insurmountable problem. 

Ciao Ciao !

elouise01582

Have you tried Blevin Franks?

xylophone

Even if you find an  a Pension Transfer Specialist, there is no guarantee that he would   advise a transfer out - does your SIPP accept a transfer against advice?

Have you googled?

Example

https://valiant-wealth.com/financial-advice-for-expats-in-italy/

dunstonh

So the amount I would receive as income is approximately 1.3% of my current CETV.

And when was the income figure last updated?    It increases each year.

Albermarle

So the amount I would receive as income is approximately 1.3% of my current CETV

This seems unbelievably low OR the CETV is unbelievably high .

Normally you would expect a figure in the region of 3%.

As Dunstonh asks above , are you using the figures given to you when you left the employers concerned ? As these will be out of date .

elouise01582

I am the same as you Essex_Traveller and won't be looking at my one DB pension until I am at least aged 54.