Terminating an employee contract before start date to start a new contract, what are my rights?

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

Yes they have signed the contract.

Presumably you have had an offer yesterday, have you told them you can start on Monday?  Otherwise go to the first job and resign. 

Manxman_in_exile

Jillanddy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

prowla said:

Typically a contract gives a start date and notice stipulations which apply after starting, but not before.  [my emphasis]

I did wonder about that. 

Most other posters here don't seem to agree though?  They seem to think the T&Cs become applicable from the moment the contract has been agreed - irrespective of the start date of employment?

A contract is a contract from the moment it is agreed, even verbally. It's just that verbal contracts are difficult to prove. There is no law that says you have to have started work for a contract to apply, and I know of one case where someone successfully sued an employer for breach of contract - in the small claims court - when the employer gave backword and the person couldn't get their old job back because they resigned and the employer had appointed someone new. It was three months notice and they'd been due to start a week later, so they got three months less a week, and costs. I'd be interested to see the evidence that a contract only applies after someone starts work, because that's never been my understanding and that's what our HR say too.

Undervalued said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

prowla said:

Typically a contract gives a start date and notice stipulations which apply after starting, but not before.  [my emphasis]

I did wonder about that. 

Most other posters here don't seem to agree though?  They seem to think the T&Cs become applicable from the moment the contract has been agreed - irrespective of the start date of employment?

Yes because the person has contracted to start working on that date and to give four weeks notice of his intention should he decide to leave the employment.

He has not said "OK I'll agree to these terms if I decide I can be bothered to start work when that day comes around"!

Yeah - I'm actually quite happy with all that. 

My post was actually directed towards prowla (c 12k posts) and I was hoping they would come back and explain why they thought the T&Cs would only come into play after employment had started.  They seemed very certain that that was the case.

oh_really

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

Yes they have signed the contract.

I must have missed this information being provided. Can you link to it?

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

 Otherwise go to the first job and resign. 

I think the second reply suggested this.

Manxman_in_exile

oh_really said:

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

Yes they have signed the contract.

I must have missed this information being provided. Can you link to it?...

That's what I was wondering?  The OP has referred to "my contract", but hasn't said anywhere that they've signed anything.  (Not that that necessarily means they haven't accepted)

prowla

Manxman_in_exile said:

Jillanddy said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

prowla said:

Typically a contract gives a start date and notice stipulations which apply after starting, but not before.  [my emphasis]

I did wonder about that. 

Most other posters here don't seem to agree though?  They seem to think the T&Cs become applicable from the moment the contract has been agreed - irrespective of the start date of employment?

A contract is a contract from the moment it is agreed, even verbally. It's just that verbal contracts are difficult to prove. There is no law that says you have to have started work for a contract to apply, and I know of one case where someone successfully sued an employer for breach of contract - in the small claims court - when the employer gave backword and the person couldn't get their old job back because they resigned and the employer had appointed someone new. It was three months notice and they'd been due to start a week later, so they got three months less a week, and costs. I'd be interested to see the evidence that a contract only applies after someone starts work, because that's never been my understanding and that's what our HR say too.

Undervalued said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

prowla said:

Typically a contract gives a start date and notice stipulations which apply after starting, but not before.  [my emphasis]

I did wonder about that. 

Most other posters here don't seem to agree though?  They seem to think the T&Cs become applicable from the moment the contract has been agreed - irrespective of the start date of employment?

Yes because the person has contracted to start working on that date and to give four weeks notice of his intention should he decide to leave the employment.

He has not said "OK I'll agree to these terms if I decide I can be bothered to start work when that day comes around"!

Yeah - I'm actually quite happy with all that. 

My post was actually directed towards prowla (c 12k posts) and I was hoping they would come back and explain why they thought the T&Cs would only come into play after employment had started.  They seemed very certain that that was the case.

My personal experience:

• I've had a contract of employment which gave the notice requirements as 1 week within the first month of employment and 1 month thereafter, but no mention of anything before the start.
• I've previously accepted a new job and given my required 3 months notice; then on the Friday before I was due to start the new job on the Monday (and during my leaving do), I got a call saying the company'd had a bad quarter and had put a freeze on recruitment, so my job was no longer available. I took legal advice and was told there was nothing to be done. The company did give me a month's pay as a goodwill gesture.
• I've worked at a company where a new employee was taken on and they just didn't turn up on their first day; the general reaction was puzzlement and then a comment that we'd probably dodged a bullet then.
  

prowla

From the government's site:

https://www.gov.uk/employment-contracts-and-conditions/written-statement-of-employment-particulars 

Other information the employer must give on day one

On the first day of employment the employer must also provide the employee or worker with information about:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

The employer can choose whether to include this information in the principal statement or provide it in a separate document. If they provide it in a separate document, this must be something that the employee or worker has reasonable access to, such as on the employer’s intranet.

That implies that there is no requirement of a notice period before day one.

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

I misread but somewhat splitting hairs here, the usual is to sign a written contract before you resign.

 
Regardless of whether he has signed it or not, he has agreed to enter into a contract by agreeing to turn up for work on Monday....! 

oh_really

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

I misread but somewhat splitting hairs here

I wouldn't characterise this as splitting hairs at all, its fundamental to the issue; has a contract been formed or not.

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster said:

the usual is to sign a written contract before you resign.

Take a straw poll and you'll likely find most individuals have not seen any form of contract (not to be confused with written particulars) and especially so when they are resigning from their current employ.

Anyway enough on this, the op has absconded.

Jillanddy

prowla said:

From the government's site

Other information the employer must give on day one

On the first day of employment the employer must also provide the employee or worker with information about:

• sick pay and procedures
• other paid leave (for example, maternity leave and paternity leave)
• notice periods

The employer can choose whether to include this information in the principal statement or provide it in a separate document. If they provide it in a separate document, this must be something that the employee or worker has reasonable access to, such as on the employer’s intranet.

That implies that there is no requirement of a notice period before day one.

No it doesn't. You have misread that. This is about statutory requirements. The law says that as a minimum on the first day of work you must be provided with a statement of the terms of your employment, which must include this information. It doesn't say that you can't provide it before then. My employer always provides it before then. If statutory terms apply, then the notice period in the first month is nil. But statutory terms do not apply in this case - the OP has said they have already agreed a contract with better than statutory terms. So the contractual terms apply.

Sorry but I don't know how to do multiple quotes but you also said:

"My personal experience:

• I've had a contract of employment which gave the notice requirements as 1 week within the first month of employment and 1 month thereafter, but no mention of anything before the start.
• I've previously accepted a new job and given my required 3 months notice; then on the Friday before I was due to start the new job on the Monday (and during my leaving do), I got a call saying the company'd had a bad quarter and had put a freeze on recruitment, so my job was no longer available. I took legal advice and was told there was nothing to be done. The company did give me a month's pay as a goodwill gesture.
• I've worked at a company where a new employee was taken on and they just didn't turn up on their first day; the general reaction was puzzlement and then a comment that we'd probably dodged a bullet then."

In the first case it is irrelevant - the contract is formed the minute both parties agreed it, so it doesn't have to mention anything about "before the start". Once the contract is formed, the terms apply. In the second case, your legal advice was incorrect - I personally know somebody who successfully sued for notice pay in the same situation. And employers don't really do goodwill gestures. They do "let's make sure that nobody sues us". In the third case, you were probably all right - just as in most cases the employer won't sue. That doesn't mean they can't or won't. 

DayDreamerandGeneralWaster

As the recruiter stated you can be sued l would say it's very likely he has entered into a contract otherwise there would be no case to answer.