Multiple PCN's (NTK only) given from NCP for parking at a train a train station

JWSARCHIVE

Hey I am urgently looking for some help regarding a series of parking charge notices that I have received from the NCP relating to a number of unpaid parking charges at Ely Train Station car park which I believe is owned by greater anglia and managed by NCP. I have spent a considerable amount of time researching everything I can about my possible cases and what I can do to fight this as I simply cannot afford the 9x £100 charges which I expect to increase by at least another 5, detailed further within. The crux of the issue is that the driver was unaware of the contract they were entering at the time and no notification to driver was given therefore they could not correct their actions which result in a series of notice to keeper being issued.

To give a background of the issue, I the keeper received on the 23rd of July 9x Parking charge notices (NTK) for varying dates (17th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 24th, 25th May and 1st & 2nd June) Expecting another potential 5x for during June. The driver of the vehicle at the time had had to change their usual commute to using the train and wasn’t aware of the parking contract that they entered into by parking at the station. The car park uses ANPR and provides no facility to pay with cash or card at the site and all has to be done online (something the driver would have struggled with anyway if they had known) and furthermore isnt made clear through adequate signage. I the keeper have been to the site to review the area for adequate signage and believe them to be very limited or hard to read (see link at the bottom to my photos and explination of the site) and could constitute my reasons for claim listed below. N

Information on the PCN’s (attached is a redacted copy of one of them): No notification to driver was given at the site at the time of the contravention and the first time I the keeper was aware was when I received the first letter which was received 65 days after the event. The PCN does use the wording “keeper liability” or reference to POFA. 

I have reviewed the BPA and seen that they have up to 7 months to issue an NTK when they are not citing POFA. Due to the site being a train station then the area may be covered under the byelaws which would void keeper liability and as they have no ownership of the land then they cannot allege loss or trespass nor do they have the authority to issue PCN’s and even still they cannot recover costs as they should go directly to the government if prosecuted under byelaw.

Ground Believed to be relevant to this claim:

1.       The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself

2.       The operator has not shown that the individual who it is pursuing is in fact the driver who may have been potentially liable for the charge

3.       No evidence of Landowner Authority - the operator is put to strict proof of full compliance with the BPA Code of Practice

4.       The Notice to Keeper was received beyond 14 days as required by PoFA 2012

5.       You failed to provide a warning as required by para 9(2)(f) of PoFA

6.        This is not relevant land

7.         Scarce and illegible small print signage around the site, see photos on doc

I kinda assume that from reading some of the articles on this site and if deemed to be covered under Byelaws then I should appeal with the standard template in Blue (my copy is below which I have added some points too, please confirm if this is okay to send) and refuse to name the driver. They will likely refuse the appeal and either issue a POPLA, I'm not sure about whether the BPA uses this anymore for byelaw cases. Then I suppose that I don't pay and ignore what I can biding my time to the 6 month window when they can no longer prosecute me (is this still relevant).

Note that I have given no response to NCP yet.

Questions:

• Should I make a complaint to the transport focus group
• If this goes to court will they have any way of proving who the driver was, can they get CCTV evidence and prove who the driver was 
• If this is deemed to be covered under the railway byelaws as the land is owned by them then what can I expect, will they be able to take me to magistrates court or should I attempt to string it out to get beyond the 6-month limitation window for the bylaws. Should I mention this within my initial appeal? Could i end up with a criminal record? 
• Will they not issue me with a POPLA code as they are part of the BPA and no longer recognize this as an appropriate process because of the bylaws
• Should I complain to Greater Anglia directly and request that they close the charges or should I offer a settlement to them to make it all go away? Should I also state that at all times during the contravention the driver was a paying customer of the station?
• Car park never used to be ANPR or pay later method, not sure if that was relevant, but historically the driver would not have been aware. 
• Will the fact that there is multiple PCN's work for or against and will this be considered by POPLA or the NCP when dealing with my appeal.
• Can the argument of that a notice to the driver was never given and therefore they could not correct their behavior and acknowledge the charges
• Should I appeal these all at once or over the course of the next few weeks, my thinking is that if they see them all at once then they may look unfavorably to the appeal?
• The sign for the parking charge was limited in its size and legibility and I can refer here to Beavis sign (see photos below for reference)
• Once POPLA makes their decision then do i have to pay the fine
• what is the latest point that i can back out without increasing this debt, i.e. incurring debt collection charges

All in all, I am not looking to make a huge deal out of this, at the moment I am losing a considerable amount of sleep on the matter and would just like to know a route to closure that isn’t going to financially compromise me. As you can imagine as a 22yr old living month to month then charges as this would fully break me, all for such a petty incident, honestly makes me why I bother trying to get anywhere in life.

Apologies if this is a lot of information to take in but I'm very stressed about this and would like some expert advice before I proceed. The last thing i need is to pay the full fine or worse end up with a record.

Redacted Notice to Keeper that I received (this is just one of them but they are all the same):

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/dhpr0tsesrxxqpd/PCN%20-%2017th%20May.pdf?dl=0

Photos of the site:

hxxps://www.dropbox.com/s/xhqj6fugpg1ls79/Station%20Photos%20Word%20Doc.docx?dl=0

The initial planned Response that I have taken from the NEWBIE thread:

Re PCN number: XXXXXXX

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require an explanation of the allegation and your evidence. You must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date as well as your images of the vehicle.

If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner.

The car park appears to be not relevant land as defined by paragraph 3 of Schedule 4 of The Protection Of Freedoms Act 2012, being subject to byelaw control. You cannot, therefore, transfer liability for the alleged charge from the driver at the time to me, the keeper. (SHOULD I ADD THIS)

I also need to point out that the Notice to Keeper is incapable of transferring any driver's liability to the keeper for the following reasons:

* The Notice to Keeper was received beyond 14 days as required by PoFA 2012
* You failed to provide warning as required by para 9(2)(f) of PoFA

Futhermore The signs in this car park are not prominent, clear or legible from all parking spaces and there is insufficient notice of the sum of the parking charge itself. (SHOULD I ADD THIS)

Fruitcake

You seem to have grasped the basics.
Send the blue template from the NEWBIES. Add a one liner about non-PoFA compliant NTK (too late for the keeper to be liable).
Add a one liner about non-relevant land.
If the keeper was not the driver, then say so.
The PPC will not be able to identify the driver unless someone is foolish enough to tell them.


Don't make the initial appeal too complicated. The blue template is there to get you a PoPLA code and to tell the PPC you are getting help from MSE.
Save everything else for PoPLA.

Repeat for each PCN/NTK.

Get pics of the site and signage.
Find out if the car park is a railway asset and therefore covered by railway byelaws.
Complain to your MP.

Redx

NCP are not allowed to prosecute under bylaws , only Anglia if the land is owned by network rail !!

NCP are pursuing as a contract breach by the driver

If the relevant land was private property, then POFA can apply and compliance allow them to issue PCN s and a civil court claim against the keeper

If it's network rail land , a keeper has no legal liability but can be the driver , or fight it

Hence whatever the appeal says , the driver is not usually divulged !!

Adding extra words tends to complicate the appeal and can lead to inferring who was driving , so be very careful what you add

Parking companies prefer to believe that the keeper and driver are the same person

Coupon-mad

You will win every single one as long as you appeal as keeper with a line about the non POFA wording and timeline of each NTK. 

Don’t miss ANY of them and take screenshots before you submit each one so you know you’ve appealed them all.

D_P_Dance

1. Have you complaijed to your MP?

JWSARCHIVE

First off, thanks for all the comments so quickly, it's really making me feel more comfortable about the situation. I'm gonna be making my first appeal today based on what you have said, saving everything else for POPLA. I have full site photos and a video of the whole site where I narrate all their failings (signage and that).

Based on "whoownsengland" site I can see the area is owned by network rail and the Greater Anglia website seems to reflect the same.

I will keep the appeal as vague as possible and not infer who was driving.

Coupon-mad you said add a line about "non POFA wording" do you mean I should bring it up that they have not used POFA wording in their NCP. Also, the timeline of NTK, do you mean just track make sure I appeal each one?

I have not complained to my MP, my intention was to do this after the POPLA decision. Unless it would help me in getting the charges dropped, if you think there's a chance then I will go down there tomorrow and get a face-to-face with her? Is calling or speaking to Greater Anglia a good idea, will they be able to drop this?

Redx

If it's network rail ( great British railways due to a recent name change ) land , then add a note that it's not relevant land under POFA so no keeper liability , this is usually why they didn't add POFA wording , but they won't admit to it , hoping that uneducated public just pay up

It's unlikely that an MP complaint will alter your circumstances , but MP s should be made aware so that changes happen , because it's their job to make it happen , no complaints mean nothing will change , think of the greater good , not personal gain

Popla is where the charges are dropped , if it gets that far !!

A keeper complaint to anglia or the railway user group may help

Yes , keep a detailed log on each and every PCN , so that all stages are done , so 10 PCNs means 10 detailed logs , to avoid errors or mix ups

Coupon-mad

no I mean use the template appeal from the NEWBIES thread and add a line pointing out that their NTK fails the POFA in wording and deadline to post it.

Do that for every one.  NCP are likely to cancel them all easily because you won’t be telling them who was driving, but if they don’t you will win at POPLA.

Do check your spam email every 2 weeks in case NCPs replies and POPLA codes go there.

JWSARCHIVE

That's great, thanks for clarifying! I am going to send off all my appeals in the morning. I will put an update on this thread as these cases progress. 

Le_Kirk

Your links made live: -

https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhpr0tsesrxxqpd/PCN - 17th May.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/xhqj6fugpg1ls79/Station Photos Word Doc.docx?dl=0

Umkomaas

JWSARCHIVE said:

That's great, thanks for clarifying! I am going to send off all my appeals in the morning. I will put an update on this thread as these cases progress. 

If you've got time to still meet their 28-day deadline, I'd drip-feed them to NCP over the next few days. One thing I wouldn't do if you're appealing by email (if they allow email appeals) is to send all 10 appeals as attachments to a master email.