Catalytic converter stolen. Then AA-assigned garage damaged car on pick up. Now written off.

myif

I'd love some advice here. 

I'll summarise in bullets to try to keep it as brief as possible, but happy to add details if necessary: 

• My catalytic converter was stolen from my car (overnight on 4th July). Petrol cap was also damaged.
• I informed police and then the AA (my insurers)
• The AA arranged their nominated garage to come and pick it up (pick up was delayed by three days, while the garage sanctioned a third party collection service with the AA) 
• The exhaust was stuck out of the side of the car 
• The third party collection service arrived, and the driver reviewed the damage to my car, then got in and reversed it
• He continued reversing as the exhaust twisted underneath the car and the car ground over it, then got out of the car and yanked the exhaust off entirely
• I have photos of before, during and after (including scrape marks on the road, exhaust under car, under the wheel and completely off)
• I informed the garage of the further damage done on collection (email, with photos). 
• I had to keep chasing for an estimate and keep catching issues along the way (long story - but it's been an absolute nightmare)
• After weeks of chasing between AA and garage, I've now been informed that the 'damage to the underside' makes it a write-off (not the catalytic converter theft)
• The car was a Honda Accord, 2.4l VTEC automatic, 97 plate with only c.68k on the clock. It was incredibly reliable, had just sailed through its MOT without a single advisory and was in perfect nick. There were two previous drivers, one of whom I know well. I can't remember exactly the service history, but if it wasn't full it was as near as dammit. The car was a dream for someone like me - I don't need new and fancy, but it was fast, reliable and comfortable. 
• I had also, crucially, purchased it in Nov 2019 and as I am going to be living between France and the UK, I was going to take the car there and register it in France (I need transport more there than I do here). As I'd purchased more than 6 months ago, I wouldn't have to pay customs tax in addition to an already eye-watering cost of registration.

I am waiting for the AA to call me with an offer.

Had I written this car off myself, I'd be contrite and accept anything reasonable. But:

1. It's the actions of their approved, third-party representative that have turned it into a write-off
2. I am going to struggle to find an equivalent car (Autotrader values it at £2990, but of the few on the market, I'm seeing equivalent models/years with 2-3x the mileage for 1.5x that price)
3. It's taken a while to even get to this point (3.5 weeks so far) and that's with me consistently chasing down and fixing issues and assumptions both by the AA and the garage along the way (I had to fight for a week just to get a hire car, with both the AA and the garage trying to tell me it was the other's responsibility)
4. It's caused knock-on issues already (around work, delaying my return to France etc)
5. I now either have to purchase a replacement from the much more expensive French market, or buy here and pay import duties - costs I wouldn't have had otherwise.

The cost of their damage to the car is far more than just replacing it with whatever lowball offer they give me. 

I'd love any advice on what I can to do make sure I can come out of this in as good a position as possible. 

Any suggestions on how to handle the negotiation on Friday and/or what options I have if the AA refuse to be reasonable? 

Thanks in advance.

Nobbie1967

Your best bet is to buy back the car out of the settlement figure and get it repaired using secondhand parts if available. Bear in mind that much of the damage underneath the car could have occurred when the thieves were cutting through the exhaust as they won’t be worried about wiring, fuel and brake lines.

myif

Nobbie1967 said:

Your best bet is to buy back the car out of the settlement figure and get it repaired using secondhand parts if available. Bear in mind that much of the damage underneath the car could have occurred when the thieves were cutting through the exhaust as they won’t be worried about wiring, fuel and brake lines.

When I spoke to the garage estimator he said that the damage was to do with recoating, and having to replace the full exhaust system as it had been ripped off. So directly related to the pick up issues. He had called me to ask 'why is the exhaust in the back of the car when I had this down as a catalytic converter theft?' I had sent emails about it already, but either they hadn't been passed on or he'd missed them. (He had missed the petrol cap damage despite that being on the initial report.) 

Is my best option genuinely to sort all of this out myself, at my own cost, even though it was caused by agents of my insurers? 

AdrianC

myif said:

I'd love some advice here. 

I'll summarise in bullets to try to keep it as brief as possible, but happy to add details if necessary: 

• My catalytic converter was stolen from my car (overnight on 4th July). Petrol cap was also damaged.
• I informed police and then the AA (my insurers)
• The AA arranged their nominated garage to come and pick it up (pick up was delayed by three days, while the garage sanctioned a third party collection service with the AA) 
• The exhaust was stuck out of the side of the car 
• The third party collection service arrived, and the driver reviewed the damage to my car, then got in and reversed it
• He continued reversing as the exhaust twisted underneath the car and the car ground over it, then got out of the car and yanked the exhaust off entirely
• I have photos of before, during and after (including scrape marks on the road, exhaust under car, under the wheel and completely off)
• I informed the garage of the further damage done on collection (email, with photos). 
• I had to keep chasing for an estimate and keep catching issues along the way (long story - but it's been an absolute nightmare)
• After weeks of chasing between AA and garage, I've now been informed that the 'damage to the underside' makes it a write-off (not the catalytic converter theft)
• The car was a Honda Accord, 2.4l VTEC automatic, 97 plate with only c.68k on the clock. It was incredibly reliable, had just sailed through its MOT without a single advisory and was in perfect nick. There were two previous drivers, one of whom I know well. I can't remember exactly the service history, but if it wasn't full it was as near as dammit. The car was a dream for someone like me - I don't need new and fancy, but it was fast, reliable and comfortable. 
• I had also, crucially, purchased it in Nov 2019 and as I am going to be living between France and the UK, I was going to take the car there and register it in France (I need transport more there than I do here). As I'd purchased more than 6 months ago, I wouldn't have to pay customs tax in addition to an already eye-watering cost of registration.

I am waiting for the AA to call me with an offer.

Had I written this car off myself, I'd be contrite and accept anything reasonable. But:
1. It's the actions of their approved, third-party representative that have turned it into a write-off

No, it was almost certainly already a write-off before they collected it.

The exhaust was toast anyway, so unless there's any other damage arising from that, you're really in exactly the same position as you were.

The people who nick cats are not worried about causing damage with the grinder. I would be more surprised if there were no substantial structural cuts to the underbody than if there were. And that's before any damage from jacking.

2. I am going to struggle to find an equivalent car (Autotrader values it at £2990, but of the few on the market, I'm seeing equivalent models/years with 2-3x the mileage for 1.5x that price)

For a 24yo Accord? Seriously...? Or did you mean 2007?

There are four pre-2000 Accords on Autotrader currently.

The single most expensive is £2,695...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107024544778

There is one at £2k, one owner from new and full dealer history. The fact it's been for sale since February says it's overpriced.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202102189212047

There's a £650 166k one, unsold for a month...
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202106264266351

...and a £600 Cat C one.
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202107225344834

There's really nothing to value yours by, except to say that it's no way worth 50% more than the £2k one that nobody wants...

Either way, finding an equivalent is not the insurer's problem. They owe you the fair market value before the damage occurred. No more, no less. I very much doubt it's in any of the industry price guides, so unless you can produce any compelling evidence that it's worth more than a nominal few hundred quid...

If you're going to go down the "...but it's a classic" route, then why was it not on a classic policy, agreed value?

3. It's taken a while to even get to this point (3.5 weeks so far) and that's with me consistently chasing down and fixing issues and assumptions both by the AA and the garage along the way (I had to fight for a week just to get a hire car, with both the AA and the garage trying to tell me it was the other's responsibility)

Normally, there's no hire car available at all once a car has been deemed a write-off.

4. It's caused knock-on issues already (around work, delaying my return to France etc) I now either have to purchase a replacement from the much more expensive French market, or buy here and pay import duties - costs I wouldn't have had otherwise.

That's not the insurer's problem.

5. The cost of their damage to the car is far more than just replacing it with whatever lowball offer they give me.

That's not how insurance works.

The insurer decides whether to repair or write off.
If they write off, they owe you the value.
Read your policy. You agreed to that when you made the claim.

I'd love any advice on what I can to do make sure I can come out of this in as good a position as possible. 

Any suggestions on how to handle the negotiation on Friday and/or what options I have if the AA refuse to be reasonable? 

Thanks in advance.

TBH, it sounds as if they are being perfectly reasonable.

Your low-value car suffered damage during a theft that made it uneconomic to repair.
They are writing it off and owe you the pre-damage market value.
There may or may not be some debate over the value, but the write-off itself was pretty much guaranteed before they collected it.

The only reason this has dragged on for a month is that you are unwilling to accept that.
It is that dragging-on which has caused the other issues to arise.

myif

A) yes - I meant 2007. Brain fart. Sorry.

the AA have stated that it is the damage to the underside that means it is to be written off. The garage estimator was clear with me that the underside damage was from the driver running over the exhaust and 'it just required some recoating'.

I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to expect an insurance company to be able to collect a car without causing further damage - especially if that damage is directly what contributes to a write-off. 

myif

myif said:

A) yes - I meant 2007. Brain fart. Sorry.

the AA have stated that it is the damage to the underside that means it is to be written off. The garage estimator was clear with me that the underside damage was from the driver running over the exhaust and 'it just required some recoating'.

I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to expect an insurance company to be able to collect a car without causing further damage - especially if that damage is directly what contributes to a write-off. 

My second point wasn't meant to turn into a smiley face! 

myif

AdrianC said:

Your low-value car suffered damage during a theft that made it uneconomic to repair.
They are writing it off and owe you the pre-damage market value.
There may or may not be some debate over the value, but the write-off itself was pretty much guaranteed before they collected it.

The only reason this has dragged on for a month is that you are unwilling to accept that.
It is that dragging-on which has caused the other issues to arise.

Between the garage and the AA, they have acknowledged that the write-off is due to the damage caused by the collection - they just haven't deliberately acknowledged it. It was a mistaken admission as they are fundamentally unable to communicate with one another. The AA didn't realise this damage came from the collection, hence they willingly admitted that it was the damage to the underside that was causing the write-off. The garage told me the damage to the underside was caused by the collection. 

I don't know why you have decided the write-off was 'guaranteed' when plenty of cars have a cat stolen and are repaired. 

And I haven't dragged anything out. As I clearly stated above, I have continually had to chase and follow up with both the garage and the AA to move things forward at all - as both keep promising action by a certain day and never actually do it. Both have blown past each and every one of their own deadlines, leaving me to chase - because I desperately need this resolved. I have only been informed today that they are writing it off - after spending 45 mins waiting on the phone. Again. For the third time in a week. 

My only question for you: did you have to go to Condescension & Assumption School, or does this just come naturally to you? 

AdrianC

myif said:

hence they willingly admitted that it was the damage to the underside that was causing the write-off. 

Damage to the underside from some knuckle-dragging numpty waving an angle grinder around under there without giving a toss what he was doing?

DB1904

AdrianC said:

myif said:

hence they willingly admitted that it was the damage to the underside that was causing the write-off. 

Damage to the underside from some knuckle-dragging numpty waving an angle grinder around under there without giving a toss what he was doing?

Have you seen the OP's car?

Nobbie1967

myif said:

A) yes - I meant 2007. Brain fart. Sorry.

the AA have stated that it is the damage to the underside that means it is to be written off. The garage estimator was clear with me that the underside damage was from the driver running over the exhaust and 'it just required some recoating'.

I'm not sure why it's unreasonable to expect an insurance company to be able to collect a car without causing further damage - especially if that damage is directly what contributes to a write-off. 

If it wasn’t a writeoff before collection and the collection company caused further damage resulting in it being a writeoff it changes nothing for you. You were wronged by the thief and the AA and you are owed the writeoff value. Your insurance company and the AA might have a discussion about who pays what, but it doesn’t affect what you will receive. It’s annoying, but if you value a car more highly than the market then you are better off insuring on an ‘agreed value’ policy.

Manxman_in_exile

Nobbie1967 sums it up pretty well.  It doesn't really matter to you (or your insurer) whether the car was written off because of the actions of the thief alone or a combination of the thief and the recovery firm together.  Your insurers write the car off and you are entitled to be paid the market value of the car.  That's it.  You can negotiate with the AA what that value is, but the fact it is worth more to you because of your personal situation is irrelevant.

The extra costs you might have to incur "importing" a newer car to France have nothing to do with any "value" that you had insured.  You could try suing the car recovery firm for that but I can't honestly see any court agreeing that that loss was reasonably foreseeable, so it's probably a non-starter.