Car Damaged by Fallen Tree in Hotel Car Park £17000 damage

cmarkhammiller

Hi,
My car was parked in hotel car park at Chateau Le Chaire hotel in Jersey. Overnight a tree fell down onto the car which the hotel informed us of the next morning. Their broker advised to get a quote it is £17,000 to repair. Aviva the hotels insurers have now (1 month later) have said they appreciated the damage but they couldn't have taken any action to stop it and therefore aren't negligent. Whilst, I understand they may not have been negligent, the tree was on their property, in the car park that they told us to park in (it had no at your own risk notice) so surely this should come under their insurance under the public liability insurance?
Any advice would be appreciated, going through my insurance does not seem fair as this was not a road traffic accident.

C Miller

[Deleted User]

If they were not negligent (e.g. ignoring warnings that the tree could fall down), it's unfortunately one of those things that you pay your insurance for. It's one of these "act of god" nonsense things

daveyjp

Unless you can prove the hotel has been negligent in not knowing the tree was weak and may fall down you have little chance of success.

Trees fall down, especially if the weather was poor.  Its why fully comp insurance exists.

Ebe_Scrooge

^^^^^ This.  It's unfortunate, but unless the hotel can be proved to be negligent (e.g. they had previously been told that the tree was weak and could fall down, and did nothing about it) then you'll need to claim on your own insurance.  That's why you have insurance.  Assuming you're fully-comp, of course.

AdrianC

This would come under Jersey law, since it didn't happen in the UK. Jersey is a Crown Dependency of the UK, and not a part of the UK.

I have absolutely no idea how Jersey law views this, and you would be best asking on a forum aimed at residents there.

If it HAD happened in the UK, then you would need to prove the landowner was negligent, and should have known the tree was likely to fall.
If the landowner was not negligent, no liability attaches to them.
If no liability attaches to the landowner, their insurer are under no onus to pay.

Claim off your car insurance.

Aretnap

cmarkhammiller said:

Whilst, I understand they may not have been negligent, the tree was on their property, in the car park that they told us to park in (it had no at your own risk notice) so surely this should come under their insurance under the public liability insurance?

Public liability insurance doesn't cover any and all bad things which might happen to customers. It only covers the hotel's legal liabilities (hence the name).

In most common law countries liability requires some form of blame or negligence - the mere fact that the accident happened on hotel property doesn't make them liable.

It may be that the accident was pure bad luck - not your fault, but not anybody else's fault either. In which case you would either have to claim on your own insurance (if you have any) or bear the repair costs yourself - you can't demand that someone else pay for something that wasn't their fault. 

(There may be some peculiarities of Jersey law which change the above, and it is worth checking this, but I would imagine that they follow the usual common law principles).

cmarkhammiller said:

going through my insurance does not seem fair as this was not a road traffic accident.

A fire is not a road traffic accident. Nor is theft. Nor is a tree falling on your car on your own property. Nor is you car being damaged by a flood. And so on, and so on. Is it fair that you might have to claim on your car insurance for any of those things? If not, who else do you think should pay for them? 

Grumpy_chap

You claim on your own insurance. They will pay you appropriately and pursue whatever is recoverable from the hotel insurance.

One outside consideration is whether you can claim from your travel policy, but it's odds on they'll ask about any other cover which they can bounce the liability off.

Richard53

As others have said, under UK law (and I appreciate Jersey law may be different) you will have to prove that the hotel management were negligent in some way. There would be two ways they might be guilty: 1) they were aware that the tree was in a dangerous condition and did nothing about it, and 2) the trees on the property were of such an age and condition that a prudent owner would have commissioned a professional survey to identify any dangers to the public and they did not do so.

My place of work includes large areas of ancient woodland (trees from tiny saplings to huge old oaks) which are used by thousands of visitors. There is clearly a risk here.  We have a professional tree survey every year, and act promptly on its recommendations. That might be an avenue you (or your lawyer) could use to approach the hotel, but I wouldn't hold out much hope. Claim on your insurance, and give thanks you weren't in the car at the time.

Manxman_in_exile

Aretnap said:

cmarkhammiller said:

Whilst, I understand they may not have been negligent, the tree was on their property, in the car park that they told us to park in (it had no at your own risk notice) so surely this should come under their insurance under the public liability insurance?

Public liability insurance doesn't cover any and all bad things which might happen to customers. It only covers the hotel's legal liabilities (hence the name).

In most common law countries liability requires some form of blame or negligence - the mere fact that the accident happened on hotel property doesn't make them liable.

It may be that the accident was pure bad luck - not your fault, but not anybody else's fault either. In which case you would either have to claim on your own insurance (if you have any) or bear the repair costs yourself - you can't demand that someone else pay for something that wasn't their fault. 

(There may be some peculiarities of Jersey law which change the above, and it is worth checking this, but I would imagine that they follow the usual common law principles).

cmarkhammiller said:

going through my insurance does not seem fair as this was not a road traffic accident.

A fire is not a road traffic accident. Nor is theft. Nor is a tree falling on your car on your own property. Nor is you car being damaged by a flood. And so on, and so on. Is it fair that you might have to claim on your car insurance for any of those things? If not, who else do you think should pay for them? 

That's a very clear and concise explanation of liability and the need for your own insurance - and not just for cars.

pramsay13

Claim off your own car insurance but ask the hotel if they will pay for the excess as a good will gesture. 

Car_54

Grumpy_chap said:

You claim on your own insurance. They will pay you appropriately and pursue whatever is recoverable from the hotel insurance.

Agreed. First, you'll get your money/repairs quickly.

Second, your insurers are much more likely than you to be successful in recovering anything possible. They're the experts, and you're paying them.