Including flow chart in will

74jax

movilogo said:

Flowcharts are used to simplify things and not other way round. Human mind can process complex logic in form of flowcharts way better than written texts.

Even if will logic is simple I still prefer flow chart.

Regarding using professional service, why would I? This is money saving forum and will writing is not as complex as brain surgery.

Just because wills were traditionally written using 18th century English does not mean it has to remain in that way only.

I like the idea of adding flow chart in main body rather than appendix. 

You've not been on this particular board long then 😂

Of course it's not brain surgery, but you are comparing 2 entirely different things.

Yes it's a money saving site, that is why every one says get it professionally done, don't do it on the cheap. Wait till Will month if you must.

Read the Stickys, no one recommends doing it yourself.

Even on the 'home' boards, there's some tasks people say 'get in the professionals'..... And there's a reason. 

gettingtheresometime

movilogo said:

Flowcharts are used to simplify things and not other way round. Human mind can process complex logic in form of flowcharts way better than written texts.

Even if will logic is simple I still prefer flow chart.

Regarding using professional service, why would I? This is money saving forum and will writing is not as complex as brain surgery.

Just because wills were traditionally written using 18th century English does not mean it has to remain in that way only.

I like the idea of adding flow chart in main body rather than appendix. 

Let me give you a real life example.

X is diagnosed with cancer & needs emergency surgery.

Before the surgery she writes a diy will in which she shares her estate between her cousins, believing that only A, B, C & D will benefit. A few weeks later she dies. 

Because the wording is so ambiguous legal advice is sought & it's decided that E, F, G, H, I & J are deemed to be beneficiaries as well even though they didn't know A.

and you still want to try & save £70 🤦‍♀️

movilogo

I think this thread has drifted into 2 questions.

[1] whether flow chart can be added in will - the answer is yes because I could not find a "no" anywhere 
[2] whether DIY will is good or one should always for for professional will writer

The [2] is not the question here. Though it is natural to discuss this as well. Remember a solicitor may not always provide you correct advice because solicitors are not tax advisors. There are many complex ways to save IHT etc. which requires financial advise rather than pure legal advice.

Because the wording is so ambiguous legal advice is sought & it's decided that E, F, G, H, I & J are deemed to be beneficiaries as well even though they didn't know A.

This is exactly what a flow chart should resolve. With a flowchart it is easy to "see" what path would be taken under what circumstances and which situations not been catered for. Using of flow chart in wills should become a new fashion   

Also, another advantage of DIY will is that because the barrier is low, you will be more likely to change/revise the Will when your personal circumstances change. 

However, whether to use professional service is an individual decision and I respect others' decisions. 

74jax

I think this thread should be closed as the op, although asking the question, is giving very very bad advice to other people who may be searching.  Yes you can do either, but it goes against board rules (or is very close to) especially when inheritance tax is being mentioned and a diy will. 

I'm going to message admin. 

SevenOfNine

I think you should add a flow chart, mainly because you've raised a moot point having already decided you're going to!

As to free DiY against professional fees, that is of course your own decision. We can all voice opinions on the wisdom of DiY but as you've pointed out that wasn't your question.

At the end of the day, IF your will complete with accompanying flow chart proves to be invalid in some way, it will be for your beneficiaries to sort out as you won't be here to care.

Correct, it could become the new fashion, makes one wonder why it hasn't, no?  What we have found here, is the MESS that can be made simply because someone 'thought' they knew better than the legal profession. I do agree that sometimes wills do appear to be a good money making machine for them, & is all that 'legalese' gobblygook really necessary.  

Maybe your executor/s & beneficiaries can let us know, when the time comes.

p00hsticks

SevenOfNine said:

At the end of the day, IF your will complete with accompanying flow chart proves to be invalid in some way, it will be for your executor/s to sort out as you won't be here to care. They, in turn, can always renounce the role.

Except of course, if the will IS invalid, then ipso facto there are no executors,  so the first one to apply for letters of administration gets the job (unless, of course, there is a previous will that IS valid in which case the executors of that will can act or renounce as they see fit).

Manxman_in_exile

Keep_pedalling said:

tacpot12 said:

I agree that there is nothing intrisically illegal about having a flowchart in your will to show your wishes, but I would not make the flowchart an Appendix. It needs to be clearly an integral part of the Will, not an afterthought. Your witnesses will need to witness that you intend the flowchart to be an integral part of your will. 

The advice about making sure the words match the flowchart is sound, but why use words if the flowchart is adequate? Doing so just creates the potential for the two not to match, or for the words to be interpreted in a way that doesn't match the flowchart. 

It’s not a case of being illegal, but a case of being valid or invalid, and unfortunately the OP will never know only his beneficiaries will.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^  Quite

movilogo said:

...Regarding using professional service, why would I? This is money saving forum and will writing is not as complex as brain surgery.

Just because wills were traditionally written using 18th century English does not mean it has to remain in that way only...

Sorry OP, but your post above confirms to me that you do not know what you are doing. 

Wills are not drafted in 18th century English (I suspect you have never read any18th C English or many wills) but are drafted using language and phrases which have well-defined meanings which have been made precise through years of (mostly) judicial decisions.  The wording can sometimes appear convoluted to the layman because the phrases are being used to demonstrate unambiguously the testators wishes in all conceivable eventualities.  Most people cannot draft a document that does that clearly and unambiguously.

To demonstrate (and I've told this story before on here), I have two law degrees (law of succession being one of my optional subjects in my first degree), and my wife has a law degree and she is a practising solicitor.  When we got married we did our own wills - no problem - or so we thought.  Then we realised that the wills we had drafted ourselves did NOT reflect our wishes.  Rather than messing around doing it ourselves again, we paid a solicitor to do it.  And our wills are relatively simple.

Also, and not wishing to be disrespectful, but I suspect English may not be your first language?  If I'm right, you may find it very difficult to draft a bombproof will - with or without a flowchart.

Go to a solicitor - unless you are stubborn enough to be "sure" you can do it properly - but you'll never know if you've got it right or not...

Mojisola

movilogo said:

Regarding using professional service, why would I? This is money saving forum and will writing is not as complex as brain surgery.

Just because wills were traditionally written using 18th century English does not mean it has to remain in that way only.

Martin has always said that the site isn't about always going for the cheapest option but is about not being ripped off so that people can spend money on the important things in their life - a well-written will is one of those things.

Don't make the mistake of not making a DIY will but going to a will-writer instead - many are not well-trained and will start with a very low price and then find lots of add-ons that you must have until the cost is well above the price a solicitor will charge.  

Ask around for a recommedation or call a few solicitors and choose carefully.  With a solicitor you not only get a person who is trained and experienced but also insured.

Also, as well as making sure your will is clear (ours is written in plain English, not 18th century legalise), a good solicitor will talk you through a range of scenarios so that you won't have to rewrite it too often.

Savvy_Sue

A solicitor might find a flow chart very helpful, but will also be able to point out any pitfalls in it. 

Linton

A major problem with diy wills is that they do not deal with every eventuality.  If you havent thought through a possible circumstance having a flowchart wont help.

A made-up scenario based loosely on one that was raised in a recent thread.

An old lady's will is very simple: her house which is her only major asset goes to her favourite grand-daughter and anything else, and there wasnt much else, goes to the local cats home.    Clearly no need to pay for a solicitor for what is little more than a one-line will.  Sadly the old lady gets dementia, and goes into care.  The house is sold to provide a fund to pay the care costs.  Then she dies.

Since she did not own a house when she died the bequest to the grand-daughter fails and all her assets including the money left over from the sale of the house goes to the cats home which is almost certainly not what she would have wanted.

If the will had been prepared by a solicitor one would expect the solicitor to ask the questions and write the will with sufficient detail and precision so that in all circumstances the old lady's wishes would be followed.