When will I reach the top of my pay band, NHS?

Manxman_in_exile

Andy_L said:

TELLIT01 said:

The simple answer is "Probably never!".  Pay rises have been minimal for a long time.

Inflation rises have been minimal. Spine point increases have been happening as normal/per contract

Andy_L said:

MalMonroe said:

TELLIT01 said:

The simple answer is "Probably never!".  Pay rises have been minimal for a long time.

It depends what role in the NHS is being performed, sadly. Nurses don't seem to be on the same grading bands.

Nurses are on the same Agenda for Change T&Cs as everybody else except for Drs/Dentists

Thanks.  A lot of people have strange mis-apprehensions about NHS pay.

Manxman_in_exile

getmore4less said:

I though to climb the bands  in the new system there  were performance and training criteria to hit  no longer auto increments.



AIUI they are outlined part 2 and in annex 23 these days

https://www.nhsemployers.org/publications/tchandbook

Somewhere will be the criteria for your role.

In theory yes - but I doubt that many staff fail to meet the progression criteria, and if they don't, they probably shouldn't be in the job:

"Ordinarily, pay progression should not be deferred on performance grounds unless there has been a prior documented discussion between the individual and the person undertaking their review, regarding failure to meet the required level of performance, and the employee has been given a reasonable opportunity to demonstrate the required improvement before the decision on pay progression is taken. This prior discussion would need to identify areas for improvement and any reasonable developmental support the individual may require to operate at the required local level of performance."

And if the OP doesn't understand what "5+ years" means, or can't work out if they started on the right point of the scale, or if they are on the right point now, I tend to agree with MalMonroe that they shouldn't be functioning as a Band 7...   I've explained above what the OP needs to do to check.  It's simple.

TELLIT01

If the NHS is being provided with enough money to give everybody a 3% payrise how can staff progress up the payscale, assuming the upper limit on the band increases too?  If some are given more than 3% in order to progress up the payscale is must mean others get less than 3%.

strawb_shortcake

TELLIT01 said:

If the NHS is being provided with enough money to give everybody a 3% payrise how can staff progress up the payscale, assuming the upper limit on the band increases too?  If some are given more than 3% in order to progress up the payscale is must mean others get less than 3%.

That's what happens in my department of the CS, the headline increase typically applies to lower paid, those paid more get a lower or no increase. 
The whole pay band seems to have been a bit of a joke since we lost the spine points, there is absolutely no means of reaching the top, any pay rise has typically resulted in the pay band minima increasing in line with the pay rise. 

Thankfully the unexpected change of 10% on promotion rather than the minimum of the next grade was brief as that did not go down well!

Andy_L

TELLIT01 said:

If the NHS is being provided with enough money to give everybody a 3% payrise how can staff progress up the payscale, assuming the upper limit on the band increases too?  If some are given more than 3% in order to progress up the payscale is must mean others get less than 3%.

The 3% is an increase to each point on the pay scale and will be in addition to any increase for going up the pay scale.
ETA: ie the cost of giving people a spine point increase will be in addition to the 3% (see also my post below)

ie someone at the top will receive a 3%. Someone lower down will receive 3% plus a spine point increase

Andy_L

annabanana82 said:

TELLIT01 said:

If the NHS is being provided with enough money to give everybody a 3% payrise how can staff progress up the payscale, assuming the upper limit on the band increases too?  If some are given more than 3% in order to progress up the payscale is must mean others get less than 3%.

That's what happens in my department of the CS, the headline increase typically applies to lower paid, those paid more get a lower or no increase. 
The whole pay band seems to have been a bit of a joke since we lost the spine points, there is absolutely no means of reaching the top, any pay rise has typically resulted in the pay band minima increasing in line with the pay rise. 

Thankfully the unexpected change of 10% on promotion rather than the minimum of the next grade was brief as that did not go down well!

In the days when the CS had spine points they, uniquely among the public sector, had to fund spine point increases and annual cost of living increases from the same headline %age. Generally by "efficiency savings" (ie cuts) or "recyclable elements" (people at the top of the scale leaving & being replace by new staff at the bottom of the scale)

Manxman_in_exile

TELLIT01 said:

If the NHS is being provided with enough money to give everybody a 3% payrise how can staff progress up the payscale, assuming the upper limit on the band increases too?  If some are given more than 3% in order to progress up the payscale is must mean others get less than 3%.

I'm pretty sure that's not what a "headline" figure of 3% means.

When you see an inflation/cost of living/annual payrise of n% in the NHS, it just means that the n% is applied across the board to all A4C pay bands and pay points.  That's all.  (It may or may not also include non-A4C payscales depending on the context).

Any forecast staff progression through payscale points should already be built into the current year's pay budgets, so it shouldn't result in some staff getting less than n%.  Or at least that's how we calculated* our required staff budgets when I worked for a trust.  Of course, decisions and publicity about funding and budgets above** individual trust level can be a very dark art...  and will involve a lot of robbing Peter to pay Paul, or Tom, or Harry...


*  "calculated" is pushing it a bit.  It was a pretty fuzzy figure of cobbled together from (1) variables that we thought we understood and to which we applied a lot of spurious precision, and (2) a lot of stuff we had very little idea about.


** Some may recall about 15 or so years ago when the then govt introduced new contracts for hospital doctors.  Apparently the DoH was surprised that the cost of the new contract was so much higher than they had anticipated.  I was a local Workforce Information and Planning Manager and wasn't at all surprised because I knew that the DoH systematically counted some part-time hospital consultants as full-timers.  When these part-timers went full-time under the new contract, of course it cost more than the DoH expected it to.  When you read of a "3% NHS payrise" you have to remember it's being announced by people who sometimes can't add up