We’d like to remind Forumites to please avoid political debate on the Forum.
This is to keep it a safe and useful space for MoneySaving discussions. Threads that are – or become – political in nature may be removed in line with the Forum’s rules. Thank you for your understanding.
📨 Have you signed up to the Forum's new Email Digest yet? Get a selection of trending threads sent straight to your inbox daily, weekly or monthly!
The Forum now has a brand new text editor, adding a bunch of handy features to use when creating posts. Read more in our how-to guide
Conned by a private car seller
furqans99
Posts: 15 Forumite
Hello everyone. This is my second post on the forum. I was able to defend a court letter for a private PCN just because of you guys. A sincere advise would be much appreciated.
I bought this imported 2017 toyota prius on 1.07.2021 (THURSDAY) from a private seller advertised through the mutual mechanic at a repair garage.
We agreed to a viewing at a negotiable price between 8600£ to 9000£ as I was going to view another car in London within the same price range.
I, along with my 3 other friends, arrived at the Viewing site to view the car.
Upon asking that why is he selling the car. He responded by saying that he needs the money urgently because his Mrs was flying back home and they needed the money urgently, hence the price is a bit less than the market value.
Upon inspecting the car by me and other friends we spotted that the car was repaired from the front (Bumper, Bonnet and one of the side panels) to which the seller denied to, as well as back bumper at the bottom and by the taillight, to which he agreed to that he asked one of his friends to do a little touch up. It is also worth mentioning that due to the poor visibility we couldn't spot the paint job done on the panels and bonnet. My friend did spot a screw fastened inside the front bumper to keep it in place and thought that it might be because of this that the bumper was painted.
The seller reassured us that there is nothing wrong with the car and it's just a quick sale for the reason mentioned above. He further added that the car was imported by him in pandemic just to resell it and make some profit. Due to flying back he had to sell it for cheap.
Me and my friends inspected the car but weren't able to drive it on the road as it wasn't insured or taxed. We agreed at the price of 8700£. 1800£ was paid via bank transfer and rest in cash. We wrote and signed the sale agreement on a paper. We took the picture of the seller's driving license (back and front). He than handed me the logbook of the car and asked me to send it to the DVLA for the change of owner by myself. I looked at the name on the Logbook and it wasn't in his name. Upon inquiring he said that it was his friend who helped him get the car from Japan.
We didn't speak until Sunday the 3rd of July, 2021. I called him in the evening for the sole reason of getting his email address as he wanted me to apply for the new V5 Logbook and I needed his email address so he can get the verification email by the DVLA about the transfer of the vehicle. He cut the call off by saying "I'm busy, I will call you back in a bit". I didn't hear back from him after that.
On Monday I called him once again regarding the issues about the car and that it was an accidental damage repaired, manufacturer's recalled and sent him the pictures as well as full HPI report, generated through the official Japanese website (who holds the data of any car from the day its manufactured till the day it's exported), consisted of 16 pages, explaining the full history of the car, the faults and defects of the car, since it was manufactured I.e. Vehicle Identification Number(VIN), date of registration, date of accident, Accidental damage pictures, Date of auction etcetera (in short, every single thing ) to which HE blatantly denied, and accused me that the report was actually made up by myself. I asked him when can I come to return the car as he misleads me into buying a car which isn't road legal, severe accidental damage and moreover a company recalled car. He agreed to see me on Wednesday the 7th of July, 2021 at the same place and between 4 and 5 pm.
I took the car to the same place where the initial transaction took place and mentioned the following defects that I encountered since I started driving the car after getting the road tax and insurance :
THE CAR RIGHT AND LEFT PANNELS ALONG WITH THE BONNET IS REPLACED.
THE CAR ENGINE WARMS UP MASSIVELY EVEN AFTER SMALL DRIVES. IT IS SUSPECTED TO HAVE A WIRING PROBLEM AND MIGHTY CATCH FIRE DUE TO OVERHEATING AS MENTIONED IN THE CAR HPI REPORT WHICH STATES :
In the electrical wiring in the engine room, there was a case that the study of assembly variation was insufficient, so that the wiring interfered with peripheral parts at a place without a protective cover. For this reason, the covering of the wiring may be damaged due to vibration during running, short-circuiting between the wiring lines, heating and burning, and in the worst case, a vehicle fire may result.
IT WAS A MANUFACTURE RECALL ON 05-09-2018, DUE TO THE ABOVE FAULT. PLEASE SEE THE ATTCHED "HPI REPORT"
THE CAR SEAT BELT ALARM GOES OFF SOMETIMES EVEN WHEN IT IS FASTENED. THIS IS DUE TO A SHORT CIRCUIT. MANUFACTURE RECALL WAS MADE ON 29-01-2020.
In the alarm system when the driver's seat belt is not fastened, the alarm switch contacts in the buckle are improperly assembled, causing repeated wear and tear of the seat belt, causing abnormal wear of the contacts and accumulation of wear powder between the contacts. There is. For this reason, there is a possibility that the alarm may not be released even if the seat belt is correctly fastened due to a short circuit between the contacts.
DETAILS CAN BE FOUND IN THE SAME HPI REPORT, UNDER MANUFACTURE RECALL HISTORY SECTION.
CAR IS LOSING THE ENGINE COOLANT QUITE OFTENLY. REASON NOT KNOWN.
THE WATER FROM THE WINDSCREEN SLIDES THROUGH THE BODY INSIDE THE ENGINE BAY, THAT COULD POTENTIALY CAUSE A SHORT CIRCUIT. (THIS WAS DEMOSTRATED TO THE SELLER AS WELL).
CAR MAKES A VERY LOUD TURNING AND KNOCKING SOUND ALONG WITH THE VIBRATION WHILE TURNING LEFT AROUND THE CORNERS (AND/OR) APPLYING BRAKES WHILE TURNING.
These issues were reported to the seller in the presence of his landlord (the owner of a coach private coach station, renting a shop to the seller on a high street next to it, (who was invited by him to help find a possible resolution) , and two of my friends.
Some (possible) resolutions were offered to the seller which are as follows :
Return the car for the total sum of 8700, that was the original amount paid. I am happy to bear the loss for the road tax and insurance as well as deposit paid for the car MOT, and Anti Theft catalytic convertor sheet installed underneath the car. (proofs can be provided upon request).
But hes ignoring my messages. I have sent him a summary of the statement above on his WhatsApp (not even giving me his email id) as a proof and told him that i have to go through the court as a last resort. Last letter i wrote him was a week ago and i gave him 7 days to respond which of course he didn't and now i was thinking about going through the court. Looking at the fee its 455£ for a claim upto 10000 and 5% of the claim amount for anything above 10k, just wanted to get some suggestions. What sort of claim can i file, in terms of distress and nuisance and distress. The car is still parked outside the hoise and I'm still using the old car. Should i go for it, do i satnd a chance? Would i get the court fee back if i win?
Thanks in advance for taking your time out.
I bought this imported 2017 toyota prius on 1.07.2021 (THURSDAY) from a private seller advertised through the mutual mechanic at a repair garage.
We agreed to a viewing at a negotiable price between 8600£ to 9000£ as I was going to view another car in London within the same price range.
I, along with my 3 other friends, arrived at the Viewing site to view the car.
Upon asking that why is he selling the car. He responded by saying that he needs the money urgently because his Mrs was flying back home and they needed the money urgently, hence the price is a bit less than the market value.
Upon inspecting the car by me and other friends we spotted that the car was repaired from the front (Bumper, Bonnet and one of the side panels) to which the seller denied to, as well as back bumper at the bottom and by the taillight, to which he agreed to that he asked one of his friends to do a little touch up. It is also worth mentioning that due to the poor visibility we couldn't spot the paint job done on the panels and bonnet. My friend did spot a screw fastened inside the front bumper to keep it in place and thought that it might be because of this that the bumper was painted.
The seller reassured us that there is nothing wrong with the car and it's just a quick sale for the reason mentioned above. He further added that the car was imported by him in pandemic just to resell it and make some profit. Due to flying back he had to sell it for cheap.
Me and my friends inspected the car but weren't able to drive it on the road as it wasn't insured or taxed. We agreed at the price of 8700£. 1800£ was paid via bank transfer and rest in cash. We wrote and signed the sale agreement on a paper. We took the picture of the seller's driving license (back and front). He than handed me the logbook of the car and asked me to send it to the DVLA for the change of owner by myself. I looked at the name on the Logbook and it wasn't in his name. Upon inquiring he said that it was his friend who helped him get the car from Japan.
We didn't speak until Sunday the 3rd of July, 2021. I called him in the evening for the sole reason of getting his email address as he wanted me to apply for the new V5 Logbook and I needed his email address so he can get the verification email by the DVLA about the transfer of the vehicle. He cut the call off by saying "I'm busy, I will call you back in a bit". I didn't hear back from him after that.
On Monday I called him once again regarding the issues about the car and that it was an accidental damage repaired, manufacturer's recalled and sent him the pictures as well as full HPI report, generated through the official Japanese website (who holds the data of any car from the day its manufactured till the day it's exported), consisted of 16 pages, explaining the full history of the car, the faults and defects of the car, since it was manufactured I.e. Vehicle Identification Number(VIN), date of registration, date of accident, Accidental damage pictures, Date of auction etcetera (in short, every single thing ) to which HE blatantly denied, and accused me that the report was actually made up by myself. I asked him when can I come to return the car as he misleads me into buying a car which isn't road legal, severe accidental damage and moreover a company recalled car. He agreed to see me on Wednesday the 7th of July, 2021 at the same place and between 4 and 5 pm.
I took the car to the same place where the initial transaction took place and mentioned the following defects that I encountered since I started driving the car after getting the road tax and insurance :
THE CAR RIGHT AND LEFT PANNELS ALONG WITH THE BONNET IS REPLACED.
THE CAR ENGINE WARMS UP MASSIVELY EVEN AFTER SMALL DRIVES. IT IS SUSPECTED TO HAVE A WIRING PROBLEM AND MIGHTY CATCH FIRE DUE TO OVERHEATING AS MENTIONED IN THE CAR HPI REPORT WHICH STATES :
In the electrical wiring in the engine room, there was a case that the study of assembly variation was insufficient, so that the wiring interfered with peripheral parts at a place without a protective cover. For this reason, the covering of the wiring may be damaged due to vibration during running, short-circuiting between the wiring lines, heating and burning, and in the worst case, a vehicle fire may result.
IT WAS A MANUFACTURE RECALL ON 05-09-2018, DUE TO THE ABOVE FAULT. PLEASE SEE THE ATTCHED "HPI REPORT"
THE CAR SEAT BELT ALARM GOES OFF SOMETIMES EVEN WHEN IT IS FASTENED. THIS IS DUE TO A SHORT CIRCUIT. MANUFACTURE RECALL WAS MADE ON 29-01-2020.
In the alarm system when the driver's seat belt is not fastened, the alarm switch contacts in the buckle are improperly assembled, causing repeated wear and tear of the seat belt, causing abnormal wear of the contacts and accumulation of wear powder between the contacts. There is. For this reason, there is a possibility that the alarm may not be released even if the seat belt is correctly fastened due to a short circuit between the contacts.
DETAILS CAN BE FOUND IN THE SAME HPI REPORT, UNDER MANUFACTURE RECALL HISTORY SECTION.
CAR IS LOSING THE ENGINE COOLANT QUITE OFTENLY. REASON NOT KNOWN.
THE WATER FROM THE WINDSCREEN SLIDES THROUGH THE BODY INSIDE THE ENGINE BAY, THAT COULD POTENTIALY CAUSE A SHORT CIRCUIT. (THIS WAS DEMOSTRATED TO THE SELLER AS WELL).
CAR MAKES A VERY LOUD TURNING AND KNOCKING SOUND ALONG WITH THE VIBRATION WHILE TURNING LEFT AROUND THE CORNERS (AND/OR) APPLYING BRAKES WHILE TURNING.
These issues were reported to the seller in the presence of his landlord (the owner of a coach private coach station, renting a shop to the seller on a high street next to it, (who was invited by him to help find a possible resolution) , and two of my friends.
Some (possible) resolutions were offered to the seller which are as follows :
Return the car for the total sum of 8700, that was the original amount paid. I am happy to bear the loss for the road tax and insurance as well as deposit paid for the car MOT, and Anti Theft catalytic convertor sheet installed underneath the car. (proofs can be provided upon request).
But hes ignoring my messages. I have sent him a summary of the statement above on his WhatsApp (not even giving me his email id) as a proof and told him that i have to go through the court as a last resort. Last letter i wrote him was a week ago and i gave him 7 days to respond which of course he didn't and now i was thinking about going through the court. Looking at the fee its 455£ for a claim upto 10000 and 5% of the claim amount for anything above 10k, just wanted to get some suggestions. What sort of claim can i file, in terms of distress and nuisance and distress. The car is still parked outside the hoise and I'm still using the old car. Should i go for it, do i satnd a chance? Would i get the court fee back if i win?
Thanks in advance for taking your time out.
0
Comments
-
What did the advert say about the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert?
Even in a private sale it needs to be as described, so if the advert says it is in good condition and never been in an accident then this needs to be the case.
What specifically did you ask him when you viewed it. It is helpful that you have witnesses to these questions.Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)0 -
So in summary you bought a damaged, imported car from someone whose name wasn't on the V5 and handed over nearly £7k in cash ?
Do any of the names/email address/bank details/phone number link back to the same person or are they all random gang members ?
I think you already know you've been royally conned - on the upside you have possession of a car which may or may not be legitimate but certainly isn't worth what you paid for it
You know now that the time for HPI is before handing over the cash
I wish you luck but personally I suspect that unless all the details you have link back to a single individual you're going to struggle and you'll find emails/phone blocked pretty soon3 -
pinkshoes said:What did the advert say about the condition of the car? Do you have a copy of the advert?
Even in a private sale it needs to be as described, so if the advert says it is in good condition and never been in an accident then this needs to be the case.
What specifically did you ask him when you viewed it. It is helpful that you have witnesses to these questions.
This is the advert he sent me before i made my way to view the car. The car was accidental damaged and repaired back home in Japan (thats where the car was imported from). Its not recorded in any category in UK.
We spotted a bit of repair work done to the car as mentioned in my initial post but didn't suspected at all that it was done every single where. Yes I do have 3 witnesses.0 -
It was a bit more than 7k. lol. 8700 to be precise.k3lvc said:So in summary you bought a damaged, imported car from someone whose name wasn't on the V5 and handed over nearly £7k in cash ?
Do any of the names/email address/bank details/phone number link back to the same person or are they all random gang members ?
I think you already know you've been royally conned - on the upside you have possession of a car which may or may not be legitimate but certainly isn't worth what you paid for it
You know now that the time for HPI is before handing over the cash
I wish you luck but personally I suspect that unless all the details you have link back to a single individual you're going to struggle and you'll find emails/phone blocked pretty soon
The car was imported into UK in October 2020, DVLA registration was done in December with no previous owners.
We didn't know its a severely damaged car until we got the HPI report from japan (You go onto the Japanese website and pay them a certain amount before they send you a full HPI report of the car. This takes up to 72 hours) You can not get the HPI report from the Uk as its a newly imported car. Even if you do, It would be useless.
The email address was mentioned on his eBay listing (I didn't buy it through eBay though), the phone number is registered to his work place (business name pops up when you dial it). he owns a barber shop.
The money was transferred into his personal bank account. Personally i would say that he is a genuine guy who didn't even know himself about the state of the car. (Not everyone knows about that specific Japanese website for HPI). Even I was told by my someone who deals in imported cars. His landlord said that he is renting it from him for last 6 years so he knew the guy. I have his driving license and home address as well as his business address.
Is it not an offence to sell a car which is not even in your name.0 -
Strange car......it's advertised as a 4-wheel drive, with 2WD drivetrain!0
-
Not at all - V5 is not confirmation of ownershipfurqans99 said:
It was a bit more than 7k. lol. 8700 to be precise.k3lvc said:So in summary you bought a damaged, imported car from someone whose name wasn't on the V5 and handed over nearly £7k in cash ?
Do any of the names/email address/bank details/phone number link back to the same person or are they all random gang members ?
I think you already know you've been royally conned - on the upside you have possession of a car which may or may not be legitimate but certainly isn't worth what you paid for it
You know now that the time for HPI is before handing over the cash
I wish you luck but personally I suspect that unless all the details you have link back to a single individual you're going to struggle and you'll find emails/phone blocked pretty soon
The car was imported into UK in October 2020, DVLA registration was done in December with no previous owners.
We didn't know its a severely damaged car until we got the HPI report from japan (You go onto the Japanese website and pay them a certain amount before they send you a full HPI report of the car. This takes up to 72 hours) You can not get the HPI report from the Uk as its a newly imported car. Even if you do, It would be useless.
The email address was mentioned on his eBay listing (I didn't buy it through eBay though), the phone number is registered to his work place (business name pops up when you dial it). he owns a barber shop.
The money was transferred into his personal bank account. Personally i would say that he is a genuine guy who didn't even know himself about the state of the car. (Not everyone knows about that specific Japanese website for HPI). Even I was told by my someone who deals in imported cars. His landlord said that he is renting it from him for last 6 years so he knew the guy. I have his driving license and home address as well as his business address.
Is it not an offence to sell a car which is not even in your name.
If you have the details and they tie up then it's time to go legal (or at least threaten it in the hope he follows through on his offer to refund)
The ad and what you've described throw up enough red flags that this could all have been avoided though - maybe choose a different 3 friends next time you go car shopping1 -
You will get the same advice as the seller would.
Private sale is buyer beware.
But
>>>It is also worth mentioning that due to the poor visibility we couldn't spot the paint job done on the panels and bonnet. <<<Life in the slow lane1 -
What a clever advert. No mention of it running or condition, so very difficult to claim it is not as described.furqans99 said:
The constant use of "we" in the advert indicates that the guy maybe has a business selling cars. Might be worth looking into this, as if you could prove he was a business then your rights change.
Ultimately, you have spent a lot of money without due diligence here...
When you saw the repair job, did you specifically ask if it had been in an accident?Should've = Should HAVE (not 'of')
Would've = Would HAVE (not 'of')
No, I am not perfect, but yes I do judge people on their use of basic English language. If you didn't know the above, then learn it! (If English is your second language, then you are forgiven!)2 -
pinkshoes said:
What a clever advert. No mention of it running or condition, so very difficult to claim it is not as described.furqans99 said:
The constant use of "we" in the advert indicates that the guy maybe has a business selling cars. Might be worth looking into this, as if you could prove he was a business then your rights change.
Ultimately, you have spent a lot of money without due diligence here...
When you saw the repair job, did you specifically ask if it had been in an accident?
Read the OP and ask yourself, when someone imports a car into the country with the stated intention of re-selling it at a profit, does that not make it a business?
I'm thinking of the people that "just buy things privately at car-boot every weekend and then resell them privately on eBay for profit" that are also "Not a business, no rights, no takebacks, no tax to pay!" -- HMRC and eBay would differ on that opinion
I'm very dubious that this was a "private sale".
1 -
Lol. Don't think ever going to buy a car again from a private seller.k3lvc said:
Not at all - V5 is not confirmation of ownershipfurqans99 said:
It was a bit more than 7k. lol. 8700 to be precise.k3lvc said:So in summary you bought a damaged, imported car from someone whose name wasn't on the V5 and handed over nearly £7k in cash ?
Do any of the names/email address/bank details/phone number link back to the same person or are they all random gang members ?
I think you already know you've been royally conned - on the upside you have possession of a car which may or may not be legitimate but certainly isn't worth what you paid for it
You know now that the time for HPI is before handing over the cash
I wish you luck but personally I suspect that unless all the details you have link back to a single individual you're going to struggle and you'll find emails/phone blocked pretty soon
The car was imported into UK in October 2020, DVLA registration was done in December with no previous owners.
We didn't know its a severely damaged car until we got the HPI report from japan (You go onto the Japanese website and pay them a certain amount before they send you a full HPI report of the car. This takes up to 72 hours) You can not get the HPI report from the Uk as its a newly imported car. Even if you do, It would be useless.
The email address was mentioned on his eBay listing (I didn't buy it through eBay though), the phone number is registered to his work place (business name pops up when you dial it). he owns a barber shop.
The money was transferred into his personal bank account. Personally i would say that he is a genuine guy who didn't even know himself about the state of the car. (Not everyone knows about that specific Japanese website for HPI). Even I was told by my someone who deals in imported cars. His landlord said that he is renting it from him for last 6 years so he knew the guy. I have his driving license and home address as well as his business address.
Is it not an offence to sell a car which is not even in your name.
If you have the details and they tie up then it's time to go legal (or at least threaten it in the hope he follows through on his offer to refund)
The ad and what you've described throw up enough red flags that this could all have been avoided though - maybe choose a different 3 friends next time you go car shopping0
Confirm your email address to Create Threads and Reply
Categories
- All Categories
- 353.9K Banking & Borrowing
- 254.3K Reduce Debt & Boost Income
- 455.2K Spending & Discounts
- 247K Work, Benefits & Business
- 603.6K Mortgages, Homes & Bills
- 178.3K Life & Family
- 261.1K Travel & Transport
- 1.5M Hobbies & Leisure
- 16.1K Discuss & Feedback
- 37.7K Read-Only Boards