Paying dad's care costs 16 July 2021 at 8:16PM in Marriage, relationships & families 24 replies 1.5K views

Keep_pedalling

Pennylane said:

Dave … did you read my earlier post?

It is worth trying that although it is extremely difficult to get NHS funding unless he actually needs nursing care, so the OP needs to pursue all avenues.

First point of call should be his father’s social worker, the LA cannot throw a vulnerable person on the street, so whatever they have said about turning down deferred payment, that is the only option they have, but the OP needs to work with them regarding selling the properties but not allow himself to be pressured into finding funding himself.  

Also call Age UK this weekend for further advice.

elsien

The local authority have a duty of care - the home may give notice if the fees aren’t paid but the LA would have an obligation to unsure he was safely being looked after. That would not involve him coming back to you, going home with insufficient support or being on the streets. 

The social workers are different to the financial assessment team so go back to the social worker and ask the question about what happens when the house is not sold within the required time frame?  If he doesn’t have an allocated social worker then go via the adult social care duty team. Be very very clear that you are not able to look after him safely. They may continue to say their hands are tied but they will have to step in to do something if it comes to the point that he is being evicted. They have no choice.

You could also make a complaint about the deferred payment being turned down,  but you may have to consider selling the rental property if the other one is going to prove very difficult to shift, 

Mojisola

Dave215 said:

The fact he owns two homes mean the council will not help.  I had not realised this, mainly as so many people told me it was best to keep the rental.  It does say on gov website that if you own property (other than the house you lived in before going into care) it counts as assets and if that is over 23k you are not entitled to help.

I didn't either.  I thought a DPS could be arranged if you had capital that wasn't immediately accessible - I didn't realise it only applied to your main residence.

As elsien says above, they have a duty of care and should be able to find some way round the problem.

Pennylane

Keep_pedalling said:

Pennylane said:

Dave … did you read my earlier post?

It is worth trying that although it is extremely difficult to get NHS funding unless he actually needs nursing care, so the OP needs to pursue all avenues.

First point of call should be his father’s social worker, the LA cannot throw a vulnerable person on the street, so whatever they have said about turning down deferred payment, that is the only option they have, but the OP needs to work with them regarding selling the properties but not allow himself to be pressured into finding funding himself.  

Also call Age UK this weekend for further advice.

That’s what people told me!  “It’s very difficult”.  However, I spoke to the GP who covered Mum’s care home and he admitted he knew nothing about NHS CHC.  I photocopied some info and the application forms, filled in as much as I could and dropped them into him and within a week had secured funding. To be honest I wish I had done it sooner but as it was it saved about £7,000 of Mum’s estate just for those few weeks.  

Mum was in a care home not a nursing home and I think this confuses a lot of people.  

If I were Dave, I would honestly start the process now.  It’s the Fast Track process and I found it very straightforward.  It is the best kept secret!! 

elsien

Pennylane said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Pennylane said:

Dave … did you read my earlier post?

It is worth trying that although it is extremely difficult to get NHS funding unless he actually needs nursing care, so the OP needs to pursue all avenues.

First point of call should be his father’s social worker, the LA cannot throw a vulnerable person on the street, so whatever they have said about turning down deferred payment, that is the only option they have, but the OP needs to work with them regarding selling the properties but not allow himself to be pressured into finding funding himself.  

Also call Age UK this weekend for further advice.

That’s what people told me!  “It’s very difficult”.  However, I spoke to the GP who covered Mum’s care home and he admitted he knew nothing about NHS CHC.  I photocopied some info and the application forms, filled in as much as I could and dropped them into him and within a week had secured funding. To be honest I wish I had done it sooner but as it was it saved about £7,000 of Mum’s estate just for those few weeks.  

Mum was in a care home not a nursing home and I think this confuses a lot of people.  

If I were Dave, I would honestly start the process now.  It’s the Fast Track process and I found it very straightforward.  It is the best kept secret!! 

Fast track is only for end of life care. The system is very different for people with nursing needs who are not end of life. And anything more than the nursing tip up can be very difficult to get. Having dementia in and of itself does would not qualify someone. 

Dave215

Pennylane said:

Dave … did you read my earlier post?

Yes thanks. I'll have to look into this. Seems a little unclear who qualifies but certainly worth trying 

sassyblue

Pennylane said:

You pay interest on a deferred payment.  

Sounds to me from what you say that your Dad is declining and could be eligible for NHS Continuing HealthCare which means the NHS will pay for his care. He stays where he is but they pick up the tab.

Can I recommend a site called Care To Be Different.  If he is declining fast then you can ask for Fast Track application and it’s usually sorted within a week.  I got this for my late Mum who paid approx £100,000 in care home fees and had to sell her home.  I managed to get NHS CHC for the last 3 months of her life. 

Sorry your Dad is so poorly, know how it feels. 

Here you go 

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/

You have to be virtually at death's door to get CHC now. My dad didn’t get it even when he was seriously ill.

Pennylane

elsien said:

Pennylane said:

Keep_pedalling said:

Pennylane said:

Dave … did you read my earlier post?

It is worth trying that although it is extremely difficult to get NHS funding unless he actually needs nursing care, so the OP needs to pursue all avenues.

First point of call should be his father’s social worker, the LA cannot throw a vulnerable person on the street, so whatever they have said about turning down deferred payment, that is the only option they have, but the OP needs to work with them regarding selling the properties but not allow himself to be pressured into finding funding himself.  

Also call Age UK this weekend for further advice.

That’s what people told me!  “It’s very difficult”.  However, I spoke to the GP who covered Mum’s care home and he admitted he knew nothing about NHS CHC.  I photocopied some info and the application forms, filled in as much as I could and dropped them into him and within a week had secured funding. To be honest I wish I had done it sooner but as it was it saved about £7,000 of Mum’s estate just for those few weeks.  

Mum was in a care home not a nursing home and I think this confuses a lot of people.  

If I were Dave, I would honestly start the process now.  It’s the Fast Track process and I found it very straightforward.  It is the best kept secret!! 

Fast track is only for end of life care. The system is very different for people with nursing needs who are not end of life. And anything more than the nursing tip up can be very difficult to get. Having dementia in and of itself does would not qualify someone. 

No it’s not!  It is also for people who have deteriorated rapidly. 

elsien

It is for people whose health needs are deteriorating rapidly. 

• they have a rapidly deteriorating condition that may be terminal
• their needs to be urgently met, for example to provide appropriate end of life support in their own home or care setting

As I said before, dementia in and of itself does not automatically qualify for health funding. Much of the care around dementia (which the OPs father has) are social care needs - washing, dressing, supporting to eat, keeping them safe. That does not qualify someone for health funding. It is worth looking into, and the person may qualify, or may qualify after assessment for the nursing top up, but the fast track is not a magic way to avoid full assessment where the needs are primarily not health related. I sit in the assessment meetings sometimes as part of my job and have had many arguments about the severity of a need and whether it is over and above what may expected. 

Pennylane

elsien said:

It is for people whose health needs are deteriorating rapidly. 

• they have a rapidly deteriorating condition that may be terminal
• their needs to be urgently met, for example to provide appropriate end of life support in their own home or care setting

As I said before, dementia in and of itself does not automatically qualify for health funding. Much of the care around dementia (which the OPs father has) are social care needs - washing, dressing, supporting to eat, keeping them safe. That does not qualify someone for health funding. It is worth looking into, and the person may qualify, or may qualify after assessment for the nursing top up, but the fast track is not a magic way to avoid full assessment where the needs are primarily not health related. I sit in the assessment meetings sometimes as part of my job and have had many arguments about the severity of a need and whether it is over and above what may expected. 

What you actually said was “it’s only for end of life care” and it’s not.

https://caretobedifferent.co.uk/nhs-continuing-healthcare-fast-track-end-life/