Shortage of non smart meters?

cynical87

I've just swapped to Octopus energy and they have immediately told me that my gas meter needs changing and they will put in a smart meter for me and an electric one while their at it. The email also said that the old type un-smart meters are very hard to get hold of. Is that true or is this a bit of added persuasion?

cynical87

Whoops mistake: they're rather than their   

QrizB

Octopus will fit smart meters unless your property is not suitable. The availability of not-smart meters is a bit of a red herring.

Swipe

Well I had a smart meter fitted this week which is now a dumb meter because it is unable to communicate with EDF. A complete waste of my time and 2 hours off work I now have to make back up.

Ectophile

Non-smart meters are very hard to get hold of because the UK gas and electricity suppliers aren't buying them any more.  So none of the manufacturers bother offering them for sale any more.

So what it really comes down to is that "very hard to get hold of" really means that they have no intention of buying them any more.

[Deleted User]

If your meters are deemed by a supplier to be end of life, BEIS agreed in Jun 20 that suppliers can now fit smart meters without the homeowner’s permission as they already have a legal right of entry and are required under The Gas and Electricity Acts to provide you with a working meter. That said, there is some discretion if the supplier still has old stock but they have the right to make a charge for the meter change.

The smart metering team at Octopus are excellent and the information that they provide to you on a daily basis might surprise you. My advice - accept the smart meter offer.

yelias

Dolor said:

If your meters are deemed by a supplier to be end of life, BEIS agreed in Jun 20 that suppliers can now fit smart meters without the homeowner’s permission as they already have a legal right of entry and are required under The Gas and Electricity Acts to provide you with a working meter. That said, there is some discretion if the supplier still has old stock but they have the right to make a charge for the meter change.
...

Ofgem, who are after all the energy regulator and should know the score, still say smart meters are not compulsory.

"Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper."

Source: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

As far as I was aware, suppliers can only charge domestic customers for non-essential meter changes.

A meter that requires changing due to reaching it's end of life is deemed essential. The first installation of a smart meter at the supply address may also not be charged for.

MSE, who updated their article as recently as 19 May 2021, also state:

"Smart meters are NOT mandatory"

Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/smart-meters/

According to the Smart Energy GB website:

"Are smart meters compulsory?

Smart meters are not compulsory; it's entirely your choice. The government requires energy suppliers to offer smart meters to all homes and small businesses across Great Britain by the end of 2025, but whether you accept them is completely up to you."

Source: https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/faqs/About-the-rollout


According to Citizens Advice:

"Refusing a smart meter

You don’t have to accept a smart meter if you don’t want one. If your supplier tells you that you must have one installed, contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline. ..."

Source: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

Edit:

According to the ombudsman service:

"I don’t have a smart meter - can I refuse to have one installed?

You can refuse to have a smart meter installed in your home if you do not want one. However, choosing not to have a smart meter will mean you will miss out on many benefits. ..."

but they do offer a possible compromise where a supplier has difficulty in obtaining a non-smart meter

"I have a smart meter, can I have it replaced with a traditional meter?

We wouldn’t expect an energy supplier to change a smart meter to a traditional meter without good reason. And as the energy industry moves towards a smart and flexible system, manufacturers are less likely to produce traditional meters. This means energy suppliers may not have any traditional meters in stock.

If the energy company does not have any traditional meters available, and there are exceptional circumstances which mean the smart functionality should be removed, a suitable alternative would be to have the smart meter installed with the smart functions turned off. By doing this the meter will act like a traditional meter but by having the smart functions switched off the consumer will miss out on the benefits offered by smart meters.

If the energy supplier does have traditional meters in stock, it would be up to the individual supplier to decide whether they will replace a smart meter with a traditional meter. The installation and removal of meters costs money. If the energy company agrees to replace a working smart meter, it is entitled to charge you the costs for doing so."

Source: https://www.ombudsman-services.org/faqs/energy-sector-faqs

[Deleted User]

yelias said:

Dolor said:

If your meters are deemed by a supplier to be end of life, BEIS agreed in Jun 20 that suppliers can now fit smart meters without the homeowner’s permission as they already have a legal right of entry and are required under The Gas and Electricity Acts to provide you with a working meter. That said, there is some discretion if the supplier still has old stock but they have the right to make a charge for the meter change.
...

Ofgem, who are after all the energy regulator and should know the score, still say smart meters are not compulsory.

"Do I have to have a smart meter?

Unless there is a good reason not to, suppliers must install a smart meter if they are:

• replacing a meter
• installing a meter for the first time, such as in a new property. 

You can choose not to accept an offer to have a smart meter fitted. You can also request to have one at a later date without being charged. Choosing not to have a smart meter might mean you have a limited choice of energy tariffs. Some smart tariffs could be cheaper."

Source: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/getting-smart-meter

As far as I was aware, suppliers can only charge domestic customers for non-essential meter changes.

A meter that requires changing due to reaching it's end of life is deemed essential. The first installation of a smart meter at the supply address may also not be charged for.

MSE, who updated their article as recently as 19 May 2021, also state:

"Smart meters are NOT mandatory"

Source: https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/smart-meters/

According to the Smart Energy GB website:

"Are smart meters compulsory?

Smart meters are not compulsory; it's entirely your choice. The government requires energy suppliers to offer smart meters to all homes and small businesses across Great Britain by the end of 2025, but whether you accept them is completely up to you."

Source: https://www.smartenergygb.org/en/faqs/About-the-rollout


According to Citizens Advice:

"Refusing a smart meter

You don’t have to accept a smart meter if you don’t want one. If your supplier tells you that you must have one installed, contact the Citizens Advice consumer helpline. ..."

Source: https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/your-energy-meter/getting-a-smart-meter-installed/

Edit:

According to the ombudsman service:

"I don’t have a smart meter - can I refuse to have one installed?

You can refuse to have a smart meter installed in your home if you do not want one. However, choosing not to have a smart meter will mean you will miss out on many benefits. ..."

but they do offer a possible compromise where a supplier has difficulty in obtaining a non-smart meter

"I have a smart meter, can I have it replaced with a traditional meter?

We wouldn’t expect an energy supplier to change a smart meter to a traditional meter without good reason. And as the energy industry moves towards a smart and flexible system, manufacturers are less likely to produce traditional meters. This means energy suppliers may not have any traditional meters in stock.

If the energy company does not have any traditional meters available, and there are exceptional circumstances which mean the smart functionality should be removed, a suitable alternative would be to have the smart meter installed with the smart functions turned off. By doing this the meter will act like a traditional meter but by having the smart functions switched off the consumer will miss out on the benefits offered by smart meters.

If the energy supplier does have traditional meters in stock, it would be up to the individual supplier to decide whether they will replace a smart meter with a traditional meter. The installation and removal of meters costs money. If the energy company agrees to replace a working smart meter, it is entitled to charge you the costs for doing so."

Source: https://www.ombudsman-services.org/faqs/energy-sector-faqs

You are absolutely 100% correct. If your supplier rings you up and offers you a smart meter you have the right to say no. The above, however, does not cover the meter end-of-life situation when suppliers are required to replace a meter. This is the particular situation that is covered by the BEIS change in Jun 20. Why?

It is only with the introduction of smart metering that suppliers have become responsible for meters and end-of-life meter changes. Many of the smaller suppliers have never purchased/leased non smart meters: the only option available to them is to replace the end-of-life meter with a smart replacement. This can be left in dumb mode but I confess that I have never quite understood what this actually means. The meter has to be connected to commission it, and the supplier needs access to it to push out updates and to receive information such as gas meter battery life.

In sum, the Ofgem rules do not cover the end-of-life meter situation when the meter has to be replaced irrespective of the homeowner’s views. Under The Gas and Electricity Acts, suppliers have the legal right to apply to a Court for a Warrant to Enter to carry out the meter change.

mjm3346

"If the energy company does not have any traditional meters available, and there are exceptional circumstances which mean the smart functionality should be removed, a suitable alternative would be to have the smart meter installed with the smart functions turned off."

Not sure the customer simply not wanting one would be considered an "exceptional circumstance"