Heat and Buildings Strategy Announcements

Meatballs

I've been patiently waiting for the BEIS Heat and Buildings Strategy to be announced for a while as I'm looking to get a Heat Pump.

Guardian article is suggesting that it may be out this week? 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/uk-ministers-resist-calls-to-reduce-vat-on-green-home-improvements

I'm hoping they allow energy providers to have an electricity tariff for people on electrical heating without the social and environmental charges to bring it more in-line with gas costs. 

Also hoping there is some more initial upfront grant funding, or interest free loan or something because the upfront costs for Heat Pumps just make it unlikely many will want to stump up the costs. 

[Deleted User]

Shifting social and environmental costs to gas (which I guess is what would happen) isn’t go to win a lot of votes in red-walled constituencies when the wholesale price of gas has risen from 0.415p/kWh on the 14th July 2020 to 2.953p/kWh today. (Source: Octopus Tracker Gas Historic Daily Prices). If that isn’t the case, then the Government could reduce the cost of electricity by 50% with the stroke of a pen.

PS To put that into context, this time last year when I was on Octopus Tracker gas my unit price was 1.964p/kWh: today, I would pay 4.567p/kWh. These spot increases will eventually feed through to higher gas  AND electricity fixed prices.

stewie_griffin

There's loads of homes that have had electrical heating for years, so it's unlikely the government will start subsidising the cost of electricity now. Incidentally the estate where I live was built in the early 70s so all the homes had storage heaters however Cadent are installing mains gas starting at the end of this month.

Meatballs

https://news.sky.com/story/climate-change-ministers-abandon-plans-to-set-out-low-carbon-heating-strategy-before-summer-break-following-disagreements-inside-government-12355890

"Sky News understands the 'heat and buildings strategy' was originally due for publication next week. But a Whitehall standoff over the cost of the plans means talks have stalled."

[Deleted User]

Fine words: policy do not make. BJ can sound off about Net Zero as much as he wants but he has to have policies that take the majority of the Electorate with him. The Government cannot allow Ofgem to increase energy bills by over a £100 in October ( the second increase of over a £100 in a year) and then, as some reports suggest, increase gas bills by £170 a year on average to reduce the cost of electricity. The Government will face riots across the Nation.

This link sums up the challenges that the Government faces:

https://www.politico.eu/article/cop26-boris-johnson-climate-change-un-summit/

brewerdave

If Bojo and his cabal were really serious about weaning the great British public off of gas for heating ,then they should mandate via planning law that all new builds should have heat pumps/or other sources of elec. heating.
Taylor Wimpey are building 590 houses currently on the edge of our village, the project will continue for several years ,yet every property is fitted with gas central heating and the whole village is in the middle of a massive upgrade of the gas mains system ! And the site manager laughed at me when I asked why none of the houses were fitted with solar panels.

bristolleedsfan

Dolor said:

and then, as some reports suggest, increase gas bills by £170 a year on average to reduce the cost of electricity. The Government will face riots across the Nation.

Maybe include a full balance of what reports have suggested are being considered https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/payouts-for-families-to-offset-green-energy-bills-in-drive-towards-net-zero-emissions-jdg2lk6js

[Deleted User]

bristolleedsfan said:

Dolor said:

and then, as some reports suggest, increase gas bills by £170 a year on average to reduce the cost of electricity. The Government will face riots across the Nation.

Maybe include a full balance of what reports have suggested are being considered https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/payouts-for-families-to-offset-green-energy-bills-in-drive-towards-net-zero-emissions-jdg2lk6js

Pay-walled links to articles are difficult to read. Payouts to lower income families to offset higher energy costs will, in my opinion, prove to be divisive. For example, it doesn't help the family that finds itself £1 above the income limit for any help. Such schemes are also extremely expensive to administer which is probably why, when the Country has massive National debt, that The Treasury is not signing up to it.

I would respectively suggest the most families on low incomes are probably not readers of The Daily Telegraph or The Times: that said, even Charles Moore wrote an opinion piece in The Daily Telegraph recently pointing out the folly of getting rid of gas boilers. For its part, The Sun posted this a couple of months ago:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/15068214/net-zero-boiler-ban-britains-poorest-cold/

Meatballs

brewerdave said:

If Bojo and his cabal were really serious about weaning the great British public off of gas for heating ,then they should mandate via planning law that all new builds should have heat pumps/or other sources of elec. heating.
Taylor Wimpey are building 590 houses currently on the edge of our village, the project will continue for several years ,yet every property is fitted with gas central heating and the whole village is in the middle of a massive upgrade of the gas mains system ! And the site manager laughed at me when I asked why none of the houses were fitted with solar panels.

There's been policy around for a while that gas boilers should be banned from 2025, but I can't find anywhere it has actually been passed into law. It does feel like we are missing out on making interventions now. 

There's potential that we may convert from natural gas to hydrogen so the gas main upgrades might not all be going to waste - I believe some modern boilers are already capable of burning both. That's also going to be a big undertaking but we've done it before going from town gas in the 60s.

Logistics of Domestic Hydrogen Conversion - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/760508/hydrogen-logistics.pdf

[Deleted User]

Meatballs said:

There's potential that we may convert from natural gas to hydrogen so the gas main upgrades might not all be going to waste - I believe some modern boilers are already capable of burning both. That's also going to be a big undertaking but we've done it before going from town gas in the 60s.

Logistics of Domestic Hydrogen Conversion - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/760508/hydrogen-logistics.pdf

There is the issue of leaks from old and degrading underground metal pipes which is much greater for H2 than Natural Gas, and that ignores the massive efficiency loss when electricity is used to produce H2.

https://networks.online/gas/could-hydrogen-piggyback-on-natural-gas-infrastructure/

Don't forget that all parts of Government are focussed on using the same energy resources. For example the DfT has suggested that aircraft could be H2 or battery powered. For an aircraft to go the same distance on H2 as fossil fuel, the aircraft would need 8 times the fuel storage space. No one has yet mentioned how H2 would actually get to an airport and into an aircraft and how long refuelling would take.

Similarly, an Airbus A380 which might fly 15,000kms on fossil fuel would only be capable of flying 1000kms on battery power because of battery density/mass. Liquid fuel has the advantage of reducing the aircraft mass as fuel is used which, in turn, reduces the amount of fuel consumed per hour. Increase the number of batteries to increase range, and the aircraft will never leave the ground! Again, no one has mentioned how quickly an aircraft designed to be in the air for 16 to 18 hours a day would be refuelled. Using biofuel brings with it its own challenges.

All these issues can be solved but at great cost and over a long timescale. Yesterday's papers were showing a graphic of overhead gantries and wires along motorways throughout the land to power lorries. Just think how long it has taken to rollout smart motorway projects and this is nothing more than a few gantries; some stopping places and a communications link.

brewerdave

[Deleted User] said:

Meatballs said:

There's potential that we may convert from natural gas to hydrogen so the gas main upgrades might not all be going to waste - I believe some modern boilers are already capable of burning both. That's also going to be a big undertaking but we've done it before going from town gas in the 60s.

Logistics of Domestic Hydrogen Conversion - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/760508/hydrogen-logistics.pdf

All these issues can be solved but at great cost and over a long timescale. Yesterday's papers were showing a graphic of overhead gantries and wires along motorways throughout the land to power lorries. Just think how long it has taken to rollout smart motorway projects and this is nothing more than a few gantries; some stopping places and a communications link.

Must admit I was surprised that they didn't picture pink pigs flying over the motorways - equally as likely !!