Chimney Breast

zoemk12

Hi
our buyers would like a structural engineer to come and check the support for a chimney breast removed from our dinning room in an Edwardian terrace. It’s in situ in the bedroom above & the loft. It’s been like this for at least 17 years. We have no issue with them doing this but now they’ve said the engineer wants to cut 2 holes in the ceiling and won’t make good after? We think this is an absolute liberty on their part as we haven’t exchanged yet and so they could walk away and we’re left with a bill for fixing the ceiling. 

Should we say no? 

tacpot12

I don't think it is a libery that they have asked for this but haven't exchanged yet; you wouldn't expect them to exchange contracts without having a structural survey done, but I agree it is a bit rich that the engineer will not make good. However, when you are trying to sell somewhere, especially with a potentially dangerous chimney, I think you might have to make some sacrifices. 

If they holes aren't made good, and the survey comes back ok, you can leave the holes there for them to make good when they have taken possession of the property. You can fashion a temporary cover for the holes.

if the survey comes back and there is a problem that means that these buyers will not be completing their purchase, you should leave the holes unfilled in case another surveyor wants to take a look.

AdrianC

How is the engineer meant to know what's behind there without cutting a hole?

Yes, they could walk away.
Are they even more likely to walk away if you refuse to allow the inspection?

Yes, you could ask them to pay for making-good afterwards.

zoemk12

Sorry to be clear we don’t think it’s wrong for them to want to be sure the chimney is supported, but to leave us with holes in the ceiling and then if they decided not to go ahead we would have to make good? We think they should arrange for making good. 

AdrianC

zoemk12 said:

Sorry to be clear we don’t think it’s wrong for them to want to be sure the chimney is supported, but to leave us with holes in the ceiling and then if they decided not to go ahead we would have to make good? We think they should arrange for making good. 

...and, yes, you can ask them for that as part of granting permission...

user1977

zoemk12 said:

they could walk away and we’re left with a bill for fixing the ceiling. 

 

Presumably though they'd be walking away because you've been trying to sell them a house with a structural problem? Yes, they could be walking away for another reason, but I expect by the stage they're investing money in structural engineers they've probably eliminated most other potential problems.

zoemk12

user1977 said:

zoemk12 said:

they could walk away and we’re left with a bill for fixing the ceiling. 

 

Presumably though they'd be walking away because you've been trying to sell them a house with a structural problem? Yes, they could be walking away for another reason, but I expect by the stage they're investing money in structural engineers they've probably eliminated most other potential problems.

We’re not trying to sell them a house with a structural problem! That sounds like we’re trying to con them. The chimney breast was removed over 18 years ago. We hadn’t even thought about it until now. 

AdrianC

zoemk12 said:

user1977 said:

zoemk12 said:

they could walk away and we’re left with a bill for fixing the ceiling. 

 

Presumably though they'd be walking away because you've been trying to sell them a house with a structural problem? Yes, they could be walking away for another reason, but I expect by the stage they're investing money in structural engineers they've probably eliminated most other potential problems.

We’re not trying to sell them a house with a structural problem! That sounds like we’re trying to con them. The chimney breast was removed over 18 years ago. We hadn’t even thought about it until now. 

And how do you demonstrate that? You let their engineer investigate...

Yes, after 18 years, it probably would show signs if it wasn't properly supported. Did the work get BR sign-off at the time? Because that will have included satisfying the inspector that it was indeed properly supported, and should remove the need for the engineer to inspect now.

If you were buying, there were such serious mods without BR sign-off, and the vendor refused to allow inspection... what would you conclude?

zoemk12

If you were buying, there were such serious mods without BR sign-off, and the vendor refused to allow inspection... what would you conclude?
We’re not refusing, we want them to make the ceiling good. 

Yes, after 18 years, it probably would show signs if it wasn't properly supported. Did the work get BR sign-off at the time? Because that will have included satisfying the inspector that it was indeed properly supported, and should remove the need for the engineer to. inspect now.

No record of this with the council so don’t know

user1977

zoemk12 said:

user1977 said:

zoemk12 said:

they could walk away and we’re left with a bill for fixing the ceiling. 

 

Presumably though they'd be walking away because you've been trying to sell them a house with a structural problem? Yes, they could be walking away for another reason, but I expect by the stage they're investing money in structural engineers they've probably eliminated most other potential problems.

We’re not trying to sell them a house with a structural problem! 

I think you're missing my point - in that case presumably they'll get a clear report from the engineer, and buy your house with the holes in the ceiling?

eddddy

I agree with you that sellers don't usually allow intrusive surveys - for the reasons you mention.

Do you think the buyers will walk away if you refuse to agree to this?


At a push, I guess you could say something like the buyers need to pay you £500 towards reinstatement costs before you allow the survey - and you'll reduce the sale price by £500.

If they go ahead with the purchase, you leave them to repair the damage (and nobody is any worse off). If they back out for any reason, you use the £500 for repairing the ceiling and getting it repainted.