Auto to manual licence upgrade - penalty?

notional

I passed my driving licence in an automatic and years later I've now upgraded to a manual. The problem is, the newer start date has 'hidden' the old one on my driving licence card. When I apply for insurance, of course it makes a big difference which date I give.  Can insurance companies see that I'm telling the truth by checking my records with DVLA even though it doesn't look right on my plastic card? Or am I counted as a new driver, which seems very unfair.

notional

PS I have a letter from DVLA listing my historical entitlement. The old paper counterpart used to do this, so when I realised they weren't being replaced, I asked for the letter.

tacpot12

I don't know the answer, but I agree it would be unfair to treat you as a new driver.

I wonder if older drivers, when they have to renew their driving licences, do their licences come with a new "Start Date"? If so, this suggests that there is a record of when your first driving licence was issued and that you will be ok to use this date when applying for insurance. 

user1977

Don't the specific dates for each category (on the back of the photocard) start with the appropriate test date?

Sandtree

tacpot12 said:

I don't know the answer, but I agree it would be unfair to treat you as a new driver.

I wonder if older drivers, when they have to renew their driving licences, do their licences come with a new "Start Date"? If so, this suggests that there is a record of when your first driving licence was issued and that you will be ok to use this date when applying for insurance. 

If you look at the back of the license it gives the original start date for each class of vehicle and so the replacement photoID card doesnt change the start date.

I've never seen the back of an auto-only licenses to see how its marked up... to the OP - what date is against category B? 

dunstonh

I was under the impression that whenever you get a new licence card, the start date is always updated.   Whether it is a change of address, name, category updates or just a replacement due to expiry.   And it's the rear of the card that retains the original dates.

notional

I did look at the back of my card before writing my original post, yes.

PRAISETHESUN

I had a similar issue when I moved to the UK and exchanged my foreign license for a UK one - the issue date on my UK license didn't take into account that I had already held my foreign license for many years. I ended up getting written confirmation from my insurer that they were happy to accept my foreign license history and although I've never been asked for it, I have a copy of my foreign license history if it's ever needed.

Presumably your insurer can check with the DVLA if it's ever needed and I personally don't see how it would cause much of an issue, but I'd get confirmation first before taking out a policy just in case.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Sandtree said:

tacpot12 said:

I don't know the answer, but I agree it would be unfair to treat you as a new driver.

I wonder if older drivers, when they have to renew their driving licences, do their licences come with a new "Start Date"? If so, this suggests that there is a record of when your first driving licence was issued and that you will be ok to use this date when applying for insurance. 

If you look at the back of the license it gives the original start date for each class of vehicle and so the replacement photoID card doesnt change the start date.

I've never seen the back of an auto-only licenses to see how its marked up... to the OP - what date is against category B? 

I assume the difficulty is that there is only one Class B.  Automatic only licences list the date of the practical test pass on a Class B vehicle, with an endorsement that only automatics can be driven.  The OP has, presumably, passed another practical test in a manual Class B, which supersedes the original test pass in the automatic.  The date of acquisition of the full licence, as opposed to the restricted one, is therefore the date of the test pass in the manual car.  

Sandtree

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Sandtree said:

tacpot12 said:

I don't know the answer, but I agree it would be unfair to treat you as a new driver.

I wonder if older drivers, when they have to renew their driving licences, do their licences come with a new "Start Date"? If so, this suggests that there is a record of when your first driving licence was issued and that you will be ok to use this date when applying for insurance. 

If you look at the back of the license it gives the original start date for each class of vehicle and so the replacement photoID card doesnt change the start date.

I've never seen the back of an auto-only licenses to see how its marked up... to the OP - what date is against category B? 

I assume the difficulty is that there is only one Class B.  Automatic only licences list the date of the practical test pass on a Class B vehicle, with an endorsement that only automatics can be driven.  The OP has, presumably, passed another practical test in a manual Class B, which supersedes the original test pass in the automatic.  The date of acquisition of the full licence, as opposed to the restricted one, is therefore the date of the test pass in the manual car.  

But I dont know what they do in practical terms... do they change the date and remove the endorsement or just remove the endorsement? Either approach could cause some issues for events happing before the date of the test.

The DVLA clearly must have a full record such that if a pre-passing the manual test that they can confirm the OP did hold an auto-license. Back in my day we didnt have a digital interface for driving license data so not sure what comes accross in the feed.

Ditzy_Mitzy

Sandtree said:

Ditzy_Mitzy said:

Sandtree said:

tacpot12 said:

I don't know the answer, but I agree it would be unfair to treat you as a new driver.

I wonder if older drivers, when they have to renew their driving licences, do their licences come with a new "Start Date"? If so, this suggests that there is a record of when your first driving licence was issued and that you will be ok to use this date when applying for insurance. 

If you look at the back of the license it gives the original start date for each class of vehicle and so the replacement photoID card doesnt change the start date.

I've never seen the back of an auto-only licenses to see how its marked up... to the OP - what date is against category B? 

I assume the difficulty is that there is only one Class B.  Automatic only licences list the date of the practical test pass on a Class B vehicle, with an endorsement that only automatics can be driven.  The OP has, presumably, passed another practical test in a manual Class B, which supersedes the original test pass in the automatic.  The date of acquisition of the full licence, as opposed to the restricted one, is therefore the date of the test pass in the manual car.  

But I dont know what they do in practical terms... do they change the date and remove the endorsement or just remove the endorsement? Either approach could cause some issues for events happing before the date of the test.

The DVLA clearly must have a full record such that if a pre-passing the manual test that they can confirm the OP did hold an auto-license. Back in my day we didnt have a digital interface for driving license data so not sure what comes accross in the feed.

Having read up on the subject, it appears that the full manual licence is considered separate from the automatic only restricted licence.  One cannot hold both, so upgrading to the full licence effectively destroys the restricted licence.  That means the test pass date for the OP is the date he passed the manual test, not the automatic one.  NCB will continue to apply, I assume, but drivers are required to disclose their licence type and how long they have held that entitlement to the insurer.  That will be as of the manual test passs date.  Silly, perhaps.