Money being held hostage - section 75?

Kiae

jweb2k said:

Can anyone smell it too? Seller pays for return label, parcel sent, then magically knows it's been delivered to the wrong place (locally, I assume), and then asks Royal Mail to send the parcel through the delivery network back to the buyer, rather than just pick it up / knock a door?

I think it sounds like they've got an excellent scam going on. 

This was what I expected, however I doubt it. The company has many thousands of reviews (although may be fabricated). I think I'm probably just a victim of very unfortunate circumstance where I'm put in an impossible situation

Manxman_in_exile

born_again said:

Kiae said:

Hi,

Im looking for more opinions here and if anyone has been in a similar situation, im thinking section 75 is the way to go but just want to see what everyone else thinks 

I bought a computer off amazon about 40 days ago and its through a 3rd party seller. I received the item and it was faulty and reported this within 72 hours. I was given a return label and a post office generation label QR code to scan to be sent back. The computer cost £1500.

I sent the laptop back approx. 30 days ago, and have not yet received a refund. Apparently royal mail made a mistake and sent the item to the wrong place, and it has not yet been returned to me. I have been told by the 3rd party seller that they will NOT issue a refund to me until they receive the item. I have contacted the royal mail and they have said that they need a claim submitted but only the person paying for the postage can put this claim in, in this instance it would be the 3rd party seller. 

I have went back to the 3rd party seller and have told them that they need to submit a claim through the post office but they are refusing to do this and keep on replying to me with a generic "we need to receive the item before issuing a refund" this went back and forth until the seller told me that they've contacted the royal mail and they have said they are returning the item to me, so I contacted royal mail and they confirmed that they are definitely not returning the item. The seller then said "we contacted the computer manufacturer and they have said the computer has been in use every day under your name". So I immediately called them and guess what? The computer manufacturer told me that they dont even get the information about how often a computer is used, so they are clearly lying.

I have contacted amazon and they have also rejected my claims saying that since the company hasnt received the computer they are unable to help until they have.

Im now stuck in some weird limbo where I cant submit a claim through the Royal mail as i dont have the authority and the seller are refusing to do so. Has anyone else had a similar situation and recommend something to do?

Sorry for the long winded post

I paid through credit card so section 75 is looking like my only option 

Thanks 

Sadly, No Section 75 in this case as you used a amazon marketplace seller & Amazon take the money & pass it on.
No debtor to creditor link.

No chargeback either as you need to prove retailer has received item back.

[EDIT:  Sorry born_again  I think you'd already answered my question that I ask below.  Teach me to read all the posts properly!]

Not being funny, but why do you say that about chargeback?

The reason I ask is because I'm sure you categorically stated on another thread where a purchase had been delivered to the wrong address, that the consumer would have no recourse to a chargeback because the item had actually been delivered - even though it was to the wrong address.

So if the OP can establish that he sent the computer back to the correct address as provided by the seller, but Royal Mail in fact delivered it to the wrong address, why wouldn't that be sufficient for chargeback?  The OP can show he complied with what the seller demanded.

As I say - I'm not being funny - I appreciate you know a lot about the detail of chargebacks and I'd like to know more about how they work.  

I'm not commenting on the s75 point and debtor/creditor links - just the chargeback point.

Manxman_in_exile

Kiae said:

Manxman_in_exile  What actually happened?

Just to clarify further and answer your question simply. I believe that the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, this is only by taking the sellers word. Royal mail won't investigate it further unless a claim is made by the seller (see above problem). 

Even if the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, is it not correct that the responsibility has left me and is now for the seller and royal mail to dispute? I no longer have the item and can take no action to rectify the situation 

Then it would seem to be the consensus above that you could try either a s75 or a chargeback - with the chargeback being less certain (because your supplier could challenge it).

Failing that I presume you'd be sending a Letter before Action preparatory to suing them in small claims?  Either your seller provided the wrong address in the first place or its their responsibility to chase up with RM if RM mistakenly delivered it to the wrong address.

Sandtree

Manxman_in_exile said:

Kiae said:

Manxman_in_exile  What actually happened?

Just to clarify further and answer your question simply. I believe that the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, this is only by taking the sellers word. Royal mail won't investigate it further unless a claim is made by the seller (see above problem). 

Even if the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, is it not correct that the responsibility has left me and is now for the seller and royal mail to dispute? I no longer have the item and can take no action to rectify the situation 

Then it would seem to be the consensus above that you could try either a s75 or a chargeback - with the chargeback being less certain (because your supplier could challenge it).

Failing that I presume you'd be sending a Letter before Action preparatory to suing them in small claims?  Either your seller provided the wrong address in the first place or its their responsibility to chase up with RM if RM mistakenly delivered it to the wrong address.

S75 will fail because they didn't pay the supplier, the FOS has already opined on Amazon Marketplace sales and say the chain is broken as per the case shared earlier.

Chargeback is a whole separate thing with its own set of rules that are independent of consumer rights etc. This has some challenge because of the issue of the return.

Court action would hopefully succeed but given the relative timelines a chargeback is sensible first followed by LBA if it fails.

Kiae

Court action would hopefully succeed but given the relative timelines a chargeback is sensible first followed by LBA if it fails.

Im going to submit a chargeback / section 75 to dispute the payment. Thankfully with my bank raising an online dispute doesn't differentiate so I assume they take the appropriate action based on the information provided. I dont think anyone here will disagree is that the bottom line is:
I returned the item via their delivery methods
I have a royal mail tracking receipt saying it has been delivered 
I have not had a refund approx. 40 days after the delivery confirmation 

pbartlett

As has been said above, since the seller provided the return label, your return is complete once the post office accepted the item.

You position then is that the seller has received the item back but is refusing to refund.

Hopefully your chargeback or a later LBA will succeed, but a small claims court case almost certainly will.

I am surprised at Amazon - you could try their complaints procedure (sorry, you may well have already said you have done this)

Sandtree

Kiae said:

Court action would hopefully succeed but given the relative timelines a chargeback is sensible first followed by LBA if it fails.

Im going to submit a chargeback / section 75 to dispute the payment. Thankfully with my bank raising an online dispute doesn't differentiate so I assume they take the appropriate action based on the information provided. 

Chargeback - is a clawback from the merchant
Section 75 - paid from your banks own pocket

Can you guess which they'll do when you submit the dispute?

Manxman_in_exile

Sandtree said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

Kiae said:

Manxman_in_exile  What actually happened?

Just to clarify further and answer your question simply. I believe that the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, this is only by taking the sellers word. Royal mail won't investigate it further unless a claim is made by the seller (see above problem). 

Even if the royal mail delivered it incorrectly, is it not correct that the responsibility has left me and is now for the seller and royal mail to dispute? I no longer have the item and can take no action to rectify the situation 

Then it would seem to be the consensus above that you could try either a s75 or a chargeback - with the chargeback being less certain (because your supplier could challenge it).

Failing that I presume you'd be sending a Letter before Action preparatory to suing them in small claims?  Either your seller provided the wrong address in the first place or its their responsibility to chase up with RM if RM mistakenly delivered it to the wrong address.

S75 will fail because they didn't pay the supplier, the FOS has already opined on Amazon Marketplace sales and say the chain is broken as per the case shared earlier.

...

Ah!  Sorry - I actually mis-read your earlier post and thought you were agreeing with Jenny_D (?) that the debtor/creditor link was not broken.  Reading it properly I see you were actually disagreeing with her and agreeing with born_again that no s75 claim

OP - you need to try a chargeback not s75.  If that fails you'll have to sue.

(As somebody else has asked, did Amazon A - Z not work?)

Kiae

Manxman_in_exile said:

OP - you need to try a chargeback not s75.  If that fails you'll have to sue.

(As somebody else has asked, did Amazon A - Z not work?)

I've raised a chargeback with my bank this morning, I've given them the tracking reference so they can see it has been delivered, hopefully its an open and shut case. 

My first a-z was rejected, with a poorly worded email saying I need to return the item to the seller, so I seems like they didn't even look into it or are just trusting the seller. Amazon have the tracking reference and can see it has been delivered so I dont know what they're doing. I have appealed it and I'm waiting for a response 

born_again

Kiae said:

Manxman_in_exile said:

OP - you need to try a chargeback not s75.  If that fails you'll have to sue.

(As somebody else has asked, did Amazon A - Z not work?)

I've raised a chargeback with my bank this morning, I've given them the tracking reference so they can see it has been delivered, hopefully its an open and shut case. 

My first a-z was rejected, with a poorly worded email saying I need to return the item to the seller, so I seems like they didn't even look into it or are just trusting the seller. Amazon have the tracking reference and can see it has been delivered so I dont know what they're doing. I have appealed it and I'm waiting for a response 

I don't know if tracking details ever drop off. So I would be getting a screen shot of it, just in case.