Money Moral Dilemma: Should we help pay for the fence our new neighbours put up?

fezster

kroome said:

fezster said:

The problem with hard and fast rules about fences being on the left, is that they are usually a myth. Some title deeds will show the boundary lines and responsibility, but this does not automatically translate to ownership of a fence.

Take a simple example - your title deed shows the fence on the left belongs to your neighbour. You decide to build a nicer looking fence on your side of the boundary right next to the original fence. The original fence is taken down some time later. 20 years pass and ownership of the neighbours house has passed onto someone else. How does the neighbour now determine that the fence which is standing does not belong to him/her?

There's no simple answer but the best approach is always for both neighbours to agree on how they'd like to proceed.

as in previous post if read, deeds and land registry, that's why it exists.

You've totally ignored what I said in bold. How would title deeds help in this circumstance?

Section62

kroome said:

traditionally your responsibility if on the left as you look out of back of house,

There is no such tradition. Just an urban myth.

DoesntEnjoyCapitalism

Strangelybrown_2 said:

If the fence is to your left (looking from your back door) it is generally your responsibility.

This is an urban myth and simply isn't true. If your neighbours come at you with this argument then it's likely they've not done their homework and/or are trying to stiff you in some way.

Most fences are shared responsbility (though whoever paid for it, owns it) unless your deeds/property plan specifically point out otherwise.

For this case, I'd be annoyed that the neighbour had done it without consulting me but so long as my side of the fence looked good (and I didn't have the ugly side of the panels) then I'd pay up.  It would have needed replacing at some point in the future anyway and it's worth staying on good terms with the neigbours... though make sure you let them know you're a bit peeved otherwise if you give them an inch they'll take a mile and you're setting yourself up for problems in the future.

I talk from experience!

Anyanka1

This house, the fence we are responsible for is on the left; the last house, it was on the right.  Might as well toss a coin if you cannot discover the legal position... And no; do not pay a penny.  Ever hear the expression, "Give them an inch and they will take a mile"?  One has to wonder if it originated over a boundary dispute...

FluffyAlfie

As they took down a perfectly safe fence are they claiming that the fence was their property- if they don’t claim ownership they have destroyed your property which is a criminal offence!

I wouldn’t pay anything as you were never consulted. 

soryan25

Strangelybrown_2 said:

If the fence is to your left (looking from your back door) it is generally your responsibility. If they took it down and disposed of it without your permission then they have committed the criminal offence of Theft (S.1). If it is to your right then they can do what they want but cannot ask you to contribute because it is their fence and their responsibility to maintain as they see fit. If was at the rear boundary then it is likely shared so they should have consulted you before any work was done but if they didn't they legally cannot ask for recompense retropectively. This is ofc all dependent on what your deeds state but these are the commonly accepted legal boundary rules.

I believe for terrace houses, it is the fence to your right if you are north facing and left if you are south facing both front and back. That what my deeds show. 

kroome

I speak of my own experience of checking whos boundary is whos which we did using our deeds and the land registry, ours is as many are to the left looking out back.

SteveSi

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

SteveSi said:

First get the plans (£3) to your own property.
https://www.gov.uk/search-property-information-land-registry
It may show the boundary and any fences - usually T characters with the long part of the T indicating who owns the fence (usually where the posts are placed).
Then go and have chat and just discuss it amicably.
As has been said by many before, it never pays to argue with the neighbours.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/land-registry-plans-boundaries/land-registry-plans-boundaries-practice-guide-40-supplement-3

‘T’ marks on deed plans which are not referred to in the text of a deed have no special force or meaning in law and unless an applicant specifically requests that the ‘T’ marks be shown on the title plan, we will normally ignore them.

Boundary lines on the deeds are rarely 100% accurate, certainly not enough for a T mark to align with the position of a fence post. 

The T marks do not represent post positions! Just on whose land the posts are/were on. If they are on your side of the infinitely thin boundary line then they are (were) your posts and thus it is (was) your fence. Of course fence/post positions can change over the years, so it is also useful to determine where the boundary line actually is (and thus whose land the current fence is on).

decodude

They had a cheek to remove the fence without consulting you, so I wouldn't give them a penny. That was not a very neighbourly thing for them to do, especially as they are new.

Section62

SteveSi said:

 

The T marks do not represent post positions! Just on whose land the posts are/were on. If they are on your side of the infinitely thin boundary line then they are (were) your posts and thus it is (was) your fence.

This is another urban myth. There is no significance over which side of the fence the posts are on.

SteveSi said:

 

Of course fence/post positions can change over the years, so it is also useful to determine where the boundary line actually is (and thus whose land the current fence is on).

Title plans were historically produced using OS 1:1250 or 1:2500 mapping as the base. Lines plotted on those map bases are unlikely to have a reliable accuracy better than +/-2 metres.

Traditionally those map bases were produced using photogrammetry, so any line plotted on them only represents the cartographer's interpretation of a linear feature they can see. They won't know whose land the linear feature is on, nor whether or not the feature marks any kind of boundary at all.

That means the maps are all but useless to determine where boundary lines actually are.

All the 'T' marks do is indicate (not always correctly) which of the boundaries the title holder is believed to be responsible for.