Gift received from mother

Concerned22

Concerned22 said:

poppy12345 said:

EThen she could just be claiming the single person discount for council tax, which isn't means tested. Does she claim for any help with the rent? This would be means tested.

My sister owns her house on which she pays a mortgage. She receives something called Council Tax Reduction (it used to be called Council Tax Benefit at one time). It is different from the Single Person Discount. There is a savings threshold of £8,000 in her local authority.

Yes, the DWP isn’t responsible for this. I have to ask myself though why she is going through all the trouble of diverting the funds when the only benefit she will lose is the Council Tax Reduction which only gives her a small discount in any case? 

Correction, it is called Council Tax Support

poppy12345

Then you should do the right thing and report the benefit fraud, as advised.

poppy12345

Concerned22 said:

Concerned22 said:

poppy12345 said:

EThen she could just be claiming the single person discount for council tax, which isn't means tested. Does she claim for any help with the rent? This would be means tested.

My sister owns her house on which she pays a mortgage. She receives something called Council Tax Reduction (it used to be called Council Tax Benefit at one time). It is different from the Single Person Discount. There is a savings threshold of £8,000 in her local authority.

Yes, the DWP isn’t responsible for this. I have to ask myself though why she is going through all the trouble of diverting the funds when the only benefit she will lose is the Council Tax Reduction which only gives her a small discount in any case? 

Correction, it is called Council Tax Support

Or Council tax reduction.. https://www.gov.uk/apply-council-tax-reduction

TELLIT01

From what I have read there is actually no benefit fraud being committed.  Declining a £70k cash gift in order to retain minimal savings on Council Tax certainly sticks in the craw but it's not illegal, neither is an agreement between the two parties to pass on small amounts as required.

Where the OP's sister may well come unstuck is if the mother does have to go into care.  In that case the mother's remaining assets will be earmarked for care payments.  It is also true that the money given to other members of the family may be considered to be deliberate 'deprivation of capital'.  If that happened the mother would be considered still to have that money and would not get any support in payment of care bills.

Pok3mon

Concerned22 said:

poppy12345 said:

Then she could just be claiming the single person discount for council tax, which isn't means tested. Does she claim for any help with the rent? This would be means tested.

My sister owns her house on which she pays a mortgage. She receives something called Council Tax Reduction (it used to be called Council Tax Benefit at one time). It is different from the Single Person Discount. There is a savings threshold of £8,000 in her local authority.

Yes, the DWP isn’t responsible for this. I have to ask myself though why she is going through all the trouble of diverting the funds when the only benefit she will lose is the Council Tax Reduction which only gives her a small discount in any case? 

1, No fraud has been committed, immoral maybe.

2, if she used the lump sum to pay off some of the mortgage or got your mother to, I am sure there is no issue.

3, there is also the possibility she is claiming more than she makes out.

Spoonie_Turtle

Pok3mon said:

Concerned22 said:

poppy12345 said:

Then she could just be claiming the single person discount for council tax, which isn't means tested. Does she claim for any help with the rent? This would be means tested.

My sister owns her house on which she pays a mortgage. She receives something called Council Tax Reduction (it used to be called Council Tax Benefit at one time). It is different from the Single Person Discount. There is a savings threshold of £8,000 in her local authority.

Yes, the DWP isn’t responsible for this. I have to ask myself though why she is going through all the trouble of diverting the funds when the only benefit she will lose is the Council Tax Reduction which only gives her a small discount in any case? 

1, No fraud has been committed, immoral maybe.

2, if she used the lump sum to pay off some of the mortgage or got your mother to, I am sure there is no issue.

3, there is also the possibility she is claiming more than she makes out.

Does seem odd that she's so adamant when the only thing she would lose would be the council tax reduction.  But WTC and CTC cover income and children, what other means-tested benefit could she be claiming?  No mention of illness for ib-ESA, no JSA (because WTC) and presumably no IS. 

Maybe she intends to commit fraud by still being under the impression that tax credits are affected by savings, or maybe she really is that worried about the council tax.  Bizarre all round, really.

tomtom256

Potentially it's deprivation of capital, if the money is being hidden to obtain benefit.

But other then CTRS (Council Tax Reduction Schemes) is she claiming any other means tested benefits?

poppy12345

tomtom256 said:

But other then CTRS (Council Tax Reduction Schemes) is she claiming any other means tested benefits?

Not according to the OP.

born_again

Concerned22 said:

Hi everyone,

My mother moved sold the family house and moved to a retirement flat earlier this year. As a result she gifted each of us three children £70,000. This would be straightforward but for the fact that my sister has asked for the money not to be paid directly to her as she has told us she receives benefits including working tax credit, child tax credits, council tax benefit and exemption from prescription and dental charges. Last September, when we found out that we were going to benefit from this windfall she rang me up and asked me to hold the money on trust for her, drip feeding the money to her year after year. Immediately I knew this sounded dodgy so I did my research and found out that this is known as deprivation of assets. I also discovered that working tax credits and child tax credits are not affected by savings so she could receive the money directly and take a very small financial hit on her council tax benefit. She seemed accepting of that. The next thing I know she has asked my mother to do exactly the same thing and hold her money because she doesn’t want it to affect her benefits. I now became very concerned that if she was trying to commit benefit fraud she was drawing myself and my mother into the frame. I wondered who was giving her advice. The next thing I know she tells me that a friend who works for the local citizen advice bureau has been advising her and that I should speak to him as I was in the way of my elderly and vulnerable mother of participating in her preferred arrangement. I spoke to him and he seemed like a very nice chap but he could tell that I had already done my research. He agreed with me that holding the money on trust was a clear example of deprivation of assets and that the way forward would be for mum not to give the gift at all to my sister but to wait until she has passed away and receive it then. The danger with this is that if mum went into care my sister would get nothing as the assets would be used to pay for this. I was really beginning to find the whole thing unsettling. The matter lay in abeyance until we met with the financial advisor a few months later to discuss what to do with the assets. It was agreed that my mother would pay for my sister’s spendings. This included £20,000 for a new second hand car, house renovations and other purchases. I really didn’t think much about this at the time. A couple of weeks ago my mother lost £10,000 in a push notification scam. I work as a fast food delivery driver and only found out about this when I paid one of my visits to mum after work to check up on her. As well as spending a number of hours trying to sort this out my mum was expressing concern about the payments she was making to my sister and the legitimacy of them. I contacted my sister to tell her that, because of the fraud, I was no longer happy with her trying to get my mum to make these large payments for items she had purchased. My mother was in a terrible state after the scam and I said it would be better if the gift was paid directly into my sister’s account. She suggested paying the remaining £40,000 into her husband’s account who she is separated from (!) I was now really concerned that if she was committing benefit fraud, we, as members of her family could be prosecuted for knowingly assisting her. I suggested that I could draft letters for her to send to the relevant agencies outlining the various gifts that she has received as per the requirement to inform of a change of circumstances. She seemed accepting of this. However, a couple of days later she texted me saying that her CAB friend had said that receiving gifts like this is acceptable and to inform the authorities of receiving them is would invite an investigation. She values his opinion as he is a senior member of the team. I am completely at my wits end. This has caused me no end of anxiety from the moment my sister mentioned it to me last year. I am worried about the criminal implications this might have on me and have said I no longer want anything more to do with it. My brother has told me to concentrate on my own life now and let my sister and mother deal with it as adults. However my mother is frail and distressed by the whole affair. Any advice gratefully received.

So I would just make the payment of the balance to the sisters account, as neither you or you mother are happy with the situation.
That puts the ball in her court and free's both of you from any worry. If she falls out with you both of you over this then it is her loss. 

End of the day it is not your's or your mothers issue. Your mother decided what to do and that is the end of it.

Concerned22

Pok3mon said:

Concerned22 said:

poppy12345 said:

Then she could just be claiming the single person discount for council tax, which isn't means tested. Does she claim for any help with the rent? This would be means tested.

My sister owns her house on which she pays a mortgage. She receives something called Council Tax Reduction (it used to be called Council Tax Benefit at one time). It is different from the Single Person Discount. There is a savings threshold of £8,000 in her local authority.

Yes, the DWP isn’t responsible for this. I have to ask myself though why she is going through all the trouble of diverting the funds when the only benefit she will lose is the Council Tax Reduction which only gives her a small discount in any case? 

1, No fraud has been committed, immoral maybe.

2, if she used the lump sum to pay off some of the mortgage or got your mother to, I am sure there is no issue.

3, there is also the possibility she is claiming more than she makes out.

None of the funds are going towards her mortgage. She has bought a new car and will renovate her house with them.