Retailer trying to get out of refunding as tracking for courier they arranged doesn't show delivered

steampowered

born_again said:

Yes. As it is going to be breech of contract.

As far as card regulations for non receipt of refund (on returned goods) you have to prove delivery. If the retailer picked them up, then OP should have some proof of that.

Section 75 is not a card regulation. 

Section 75 simply states as follows:
If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) [i.e. a credit card purchase] has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

You might be referring to Visa and Mastercard's chargeback schemes, which are not the same thing as a s75 claim.

It is not clear from Op's post whether their bank claim is being dealt with under s75 or under chargeback.

dekaspace1

I'm not sure myself its a credit card not through a normal bank, I just phoned up and they took details and got the current response back from the 2nd stage department, all the emails say is "dispute"

born_again

steampowered said:

born_again said:

Yes. As it is going to be breech of contract.

As far as card regulations for non receipt of refund (on returned goods) you have to prove delivery. If the retailer picked them up, then OP should have some proof of that.

Section 75 is not a card regulation. 

Section 75 simply states as follows:
If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) [i.e. a credit card purchase] has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

You might be referring to Visa and Mastercard's chargeback schemes, which are not the same thing as a s75 claim.

It is not clear from Op's post whether their bank claim is being dealt with under s75 or under chargeback.

You need to read the post that I was replying too... 
As that makes it clear what exactly I was responding too.
 Do you think that the card provider is simply going to take it that it has been sent back without proof? 
As S75 is them paying out.

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head

born_again said:

steampowered said:

born_again said:

Yes. As it is going to be breech of contract.

As far as card regulations for non receipt of refund (on returned goods) you have to prove delivery. If the retailer picked them up, then OP should have some proof of that.

Section 75 is not a card regulation. 

Section 75 simply states as follows:
If the debtor under a debtor-creditor-supplier agreement falling within section 12(b) or (c) [i.e. a credit card purchase] has, in relation to a transaction financed by the agreement, any claim against the supplier in respect of a misrepresentation or breach of contract, he shall have a like claim against the creditor, who, with the supplier, shall accordingly be jointly and severally liable to the debtor.

You might be referring to Visa and Mastercard's chargeback schemes, which are not the same thing as a s75 claim.

It is not clear from Op's post whether their bank claim is being dealt with under s75 or under chargeback.

You need to read the post that I was replying too... 
As that makes it clear what exactly I was responding too.
 Do you think that the card provider is simply going to take it that it has been sent back without proof? 
As S75 is them paying out.

I think what the others are saying is that if the S75 places the same burden of liability on the card provider as it does the retailer then would the requirements of Consumer Rights Act not dictate the card provider's actions? 

The CRA mentions returning (if there is an agreement) or otherwise the retailer collecting if they have offered to but makes not mention of delivery taking place back to the retailer.  

I know you know your stuff but if the card provider insisted upon proof of delivery to cover the claim but the legislation doesn't require this couldn't the consumer simply take the card provider to small claims and win anyway. 

born_again

the_lunatic_is_in_my_head said:

I think what the others are saying is that if the S75 places the same burden of liability on the card provider as it does the retailer then would the requirements of Consumer Rights Act not dictate the card provider's actions? 

The CRA mentions returning (if there is an agreement) or otherwise the retailer collecting if they have offered to but makes not mention of delivery taking place back to the retailer.  

I know you know your stuff but if the card provider insisted upon proof of delivery to cover the claim but the legislation doesn't require this couldn't the consumer simply take the card provider to small claims and win anyway. 

I get your point. & yes they could, just the same as they could take the retailer. It is just a case of wanting some proof. Very much like asking customers for T/C to prove their case.
It could go to court & the judge deciding that on the balance of probability that as the customer has decided not provided any proof of return, they are going to decline the claim. On the basis they do not believe them.

Jenni_D

But the tracking shows it was collected from the OP? So it is no longer with the OP, thus no longer within the OP's liability (by law) as the seller arranged the collection so the courier is the seller's agent. In such circumstances I'd doubt the BoP would fall on the seller's side.

born_again

Jenni_D said:

But the tracking shows it was collected from the OP? So it is no longer with the OP, thus no longer within the OP's liability (by law) as the seller arranged the collection so the courier is the seller's agent. In such circumstances I'd doubt the BoP would fall on the seller's side.

So the OP provided that as proof along with the details from the retailer arranging the collection.

Jenni_D

I get what you were saying now ... on reading it I didn't pick it up the way you intended.

dekaspace1

Ok an update, it was a chargeback and not Section 75 as got a email from credit card declining the "chargeback" as retailer has disputed this.

Retailer giving a spiel about their terms and claiming that I didn't meet them.

Then mentioning they now HAVE the package, but its not the correct item.

They say the item they recieved doesn't look new (well obviously as it was destroyed in transport to me)

Original documents were missing (if they mean manuals I didn't see any in there)

They make the claim/statement that I have made many returns in the past for defective items (their idea of many can vary so that CAN be true with certain context.)

That my claims are no longer "credible" and no refund is due and they have closed my account.(the retailer I mean)

I haven't used it since and sure enough it has been closed.

Credit card company has said they will take the funds off my card again, and a new chargeback cannot be raised. It isn't showing yet though.

So im not sure what to do, I guess I contact them and tell them I want to raise a Section 75, but what about their handling of the chargeback? They have taken the retailers word without asking me, and they haven't asked the retailer for evidence they have returned this wrongful item to me.

MattMattMattUK

dekaspace1 said:

Ok an update, it was a chargeback and not Section 75 as got a email from credit card declining the "chargeback" as retailer has disputed this.

Retailer giving a spiel about their terms and claiming that I didn't meet them.

Then mentioning they now HAVE the package, but its not the correct item.

They say the item they recieved doesn't look new (well obviously as it was destroyed in transport to me)

Original documents were missing (if they mean manuals I didn't see any in there)

This can happen, chargebacks can be declined.

dekaspace1 said:

They make the claim/statement that I have made many returns in the past for defective items (their idea of many can vary so that CAN be true with certain context.)

That my claims are no longer "credible" and no refund is due and they have closed my account.(the retailer I mean)

I haven't used it since and sure enough it has been closed.

Who is the retailer? This will happen with the majority of retailers, they usually have a percentage of orders, a percentage of order value, some have an annual number of returns etc. If you have been a habitual returner then they will tend to take you less seriously than if it is only very occasionally. They have a right to no longer wish to sell to you so there is nothing you can do about that.

dekaspace1 said:

Credit card company has said they will take the funds off my card again, and a new chargeback cannot be raised. It isn't showing yet though.

So im not sure what to do, I guess I contact them and tell them I want to raise a Section 75, but what about their handling of the chargeback? They have taken the retailers word without asking me, and they haven't asked the retailer for evidence they have returned this wrongful item to me.

That is standard procedure and so is not being allowed to raise a second chargeback for the same transaction.

dekaspace1 said:

So im not sure what to do, I guess I contact them and tell them I want to raise a Section 75, but what about their handling of the chargeback? They have taken the retailers word without asking me, and they haven't asked the retailer for evidence they have returned this wrongful item to me.

You have two options now, the far easiest will be S75, the other would be the small claims court, but it makes sense to go down the S75 route first. It is not so much that they have taken the retailer's word, you raised your claim with your information, they countered with theirs. The retailer does not need to provide evidence they have returned the item to you for the Chargeback to be denied. 

Make sure you have all your information correct for the S75 claim, state everything chronologically, factually, and do not bring emotions into the complaint. Be very specific about why you returned the item (eg. not just "faulty", but what the fault was), about the returns process (the courier being booked by the retailer, the courier not picking up when scheduled, losing the package for days etc.). Also just to confirm, for S75 the individual item must be over £100.