Falsely accused of fly tipping

[Deleted User]

delete 123

AdrianC

[DELETED USER] said:

It's one of those nasty situations where the law makes you guilty until proven innocent

No, it isn't.

The OP has received an FPN. That's an alternative to going through the justice system, whereby they get a very lenient penalty in return for accepting they did indeed do it.

If they did not do it, they get their day in court. That court hearing uses the normal criminal justice balance of proof - innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.

The council have evidence that the OP's name and address was in the tipped rubbish.
No, that is not proof beyond reasonable doubt that the OP tipped it.

user1977

AdrianC said:

[DELETED USER] said:

It's one of those nasty situations where the law makes you guilty until proven innocent

No, that is not proof beyond reasonable doubt that the OP tipped it.

If nothing else because they're not the only person in the household - given it's their sister's house, why is not just as (if not more) plausible that she dumped the rubbish?

Chandler85

[DELETED USER] said:

dombratt said:

[DELETED USER] said:

It's one of those nasty situations where the law makes you guilty until proven innocent and it's almost impossible to prove you are innocent.

The burden of proof is supposed to be "beyond reasonable doubt" but in practice the courts often just assume that something with your name on it means you must have done it, even though there a hundred ways it could have got there with no involvement from you.

If you do reject it and go to court you will get to see what evidence they have. You might find there is something you can use, such as an incorrectly addressed letter or a sealed envelope with a bank statement that you would clearly have wanted and not dumped. The problem is they will only submit the minimum evidence they need to so you probably won't get a complete picture of what happened. You could try questioning the person who found it but that isn't easy.

Legal advice would help but probably cost you £100 and then advise you to pay the fine anyway. If you aren't too worried about the conviction and costs then you could proceed to court anyway.

Welcome to the English "justice" system.

That's what I just don't get, if I received your letter for example and I live on the same road, i can just fly tip your letter and boom £400 FPN and there is little to nothing you can do about it, assuming you don't personally handle all of your waste and keep note of every single letter you have?

Yes, that's exactly how it is. It's ridiculous but the courts are very much inclined to just believe the police unless there is strong evidence that they are wrong.

You can fight it but it will cost you, and even if you win you will have lost a lot of money and years of worry (it takes forever to go through the system and there is a massive COVID backlog).

This is what you get after a decade of Tory austerity.

Courts are inclined to believe the police, not that the police are even involved here...  It's council and a civil enforcement.

I suspect more people get away with a crime because there is that slim chance it wasn't them then get convicted when innocent.