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Friend got PCN for using my designated parking spot without permit.

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Comments

  • KeithP
    KeithP Posts: 41,225 Forumite
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper
    But @Coupon-mad did say...

    Do not say that you are neither the driver nor keeper.

  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 148,274 Forumite
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    I think it's best to do this one by post on Monday (with free cert of posting - keep it) because ticking 'none of the above' won't be accepted as an appeal.  A letter can be vaguer.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
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    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Half_way
    Half_way Posts: 7,401 Forumite
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    Fruitcake said:
    Thinking about this further, since your property rental agreement includes payment for the exclusive use of a parking space, that makes you the lawful landholder of parking space number XX.

    You should provide a statement to your friend stating the above, and informing the PPC that you gave express permission in accordance with your lease/AST/property rental agreement (delete as appropriate) for the registered keeper named NNNNNN to use your parking space number XX at "location"
    for the three specific dates on the PCNs.
    As lawful landholder you require the PPC to cancel all PCNs issued to *named person* with VRM ********. 


    You should send a separate letter to the PPC informing them as lawful landholder of space number XX at "location" you are instructing them to add your VRM to an exemption list, you never agreed to a permit scheme on your demised property, and in future they should contact you at "address" before issuing PCNs on vehicles parked in your demised parking space in accordance with good car park management practice to ensure genuine motorists with permission to park are not targeted.
    Inform them that you hereby remove any implied rights of access to your demised property, and instruct them to cease and desist any and all for profit business on said property.

    You could if you wish add that since a reputable company would have checked beforehand before commencing parking operations on your demised property, you assume they will have been provided with a copy of the terms and conditions applicable to residents' parking at "location" but in this instance seem to have overlooked your existing rights as per "property rental agreement" number and date granting you exclusive rights to park on your own space.

    Complain to your managing agent as above, stating that they, or whoever contract the parking company, has breached your rental agreement, and give them all the evidence, also telling them to instruct their agent, for whom they are jointly and severally responsible, to cease and desist operating a for-profit business on your demised property.

    Your property rental agreement might prohibit you from operating a business form your own space, so if it does, mention that as well in your complaint as it means the MA is permitting a further breach of your agreement.

    I advise all of this because UKPPO are very litigious and this could well up in court (where I'm sure you would want to be a witness for your friend) and you could end up in court as well if you got a PCN because person or persons unknown had bounced up and down on your car to deliberately dislodge your permit that you are not actually required to display.

    You might want to enrol the help of other residents in getting the excesses unregulated parking companies curbed. Companies referred to as rogues, scammers, and bloodsuckers by UK MPs across all parties.



    You ned to follow the advice above, plus its really important to come down hard and heavy against the management company/agents who allowed the so called parking company to operate .
     A few things you ned to make clear to them:
     you have only displayed a permit as a courtesy, and not as an obligation - as this is your land/space to which you have pre existing rights to there is no reason to display such a thing.

     You will no,longer be displaying a permit from (date X) and they are welcome to have the thing back if they arrange postage for it

    It is completely unreasonable to sub let your property to an un regulated predatory company who then charge £100 ( or whatever they say it is ) a day for the use of your own property unless you have one of their so called permits

    As principal they ( the management company) are jointly and severally liable for the actions of their agents, ( the parking company) this includes any costs and charges such as any possible breaches of GDPR legislation - if  their agents have accessed and processed personal data without carrying out reasonable checks to ensure they have just cause to do so then the management company may be liable for a considerable sum payable in compensation, under GDPR this may also extend to personal liability ( as opposed to corporate)  for the individual who signed the contract with the parking company.

    You could also tell the management company that as they have been in effect renting out your property for £100 a day you expect them to remove the parking company with immediate effect  pay you compensation to the same value - ie £100 multiplied by the number of days the parking company has been present, however as a gesture of goodwill you are willing to accept a discount of X percent ( equal to the so called early payment discount)

    It may sound aggressive, but you need to be, the so called parking companies and all the detritus attached to them show no signs of any lee way so why should you?





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  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,586 Forumite
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    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Thanks everyone for all the help.

    I drafted an appeal based on the NEWBIES thread and your advice, which I will be posting later today in the PO.

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Parking ticket number: [insert ticket reference number]
    Vehicle registration number: [insert vehicle registration number] 

    I dispute your 'parking charge' as the lawful landholder of space number [PARKING SPACE NUMBER] at [PARKING LOCATION]. I deny any liability or contractual agreement, and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to [NAME OF THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY HERE].

    I am sending with this letter my tenancy agreement, which explicitly states that I have "exclusive use of parking bay number [XX] for the duration of the Tenancy.". Note that the word 'exclusive' has already been tested at an appeal before HHJ Saffman at Leeds Court, UKPC v McCarthy where the parking firm's barrister lost and was given short shrift for trying to argue that exclusive could be demeaned to a lesser meaning. 

    You claim that the car parked in my parking space, with the bay number [XX], was not displaying a permit. Still, I have only previously shown a permit as a courtesy and not as an obligation. As this is my space, I have pre-existing rights, and there is no reason to display such a permit. 

    Does that make sense?


  • D_P_Dance
    D_P_Dance Posts: 11,586 Forumite
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    I should add a threat ot two about a counter claim under Landlord and tenats Act Cata Protection Act etc.  Haveyou read Davey v UKPC?
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Umkomaas
    Umkomaas Posts: 42,885 Forumite
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    Thanks everyone for all the help.

    I drafted an appeal based on the NEWBIES thread and your advice, which I will be posting later today in the PO.

    Dear Sir or Madam,

    Parking ticket number: [insert ticket reference number]
    Vehicle registration number: [insert vehicle registration number] 

    I dispute your 'parking charge' as the lawful landholder of space number [PARKING SPACE NUMBER] at [PARKING LOCATION]. I deny any liability or contractual agreement, and I will be making a complaint about your predatory conduct to [NAME OF THE MANAGEMENT COMPANY HERE].

    I am sending with this letter my tenancy agreement, which explicitly states that I have "exclusive use of parking bay number [XX] for the duration of the Tenancy.". Note that the word 'exclusive' has already been tested at an appeal before HHJ Saffman at Leeds Court, UKPC v McCarthy where the parking firm's barrister lost and was given short shrift for trying to argue that exclusive could be demeaned to a lesser meaning. 

    You claim that the car parked in my parking space, with the bay number [XX], was not displaying a permit. Still, I have only previously shown a permit as a courtesy and not as an obligation. As this is my space, I have pre-existing rights, and there is no reason to display such a permit. 

    Does that make sense?


    It does to me, but I wouldn't anticipate the PPC looking down the same end of the telescope as me, expect rejection. Still, that's part of the ongoing game. 

    Are you sending separate appeals (in separate envelopes) for each PCN?
    Please note, we are not a legal advice forum. I personally don't get involved in critiquing court case Defences/Witness Statements, so unable to help on that front. Please don't ask. .

    I provide only my personal opinion, it is not a legal opinion, it is simply a personal one. I am not a lawyer.

    Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day; show him how to catch fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.

    Private Parking Firms - Killing the High Street
  • Coupon-mad
    Coupon-mad Posts: 148,274 Forumite
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    edited 12 July 2021 at 3:59PM
    I say do ONE LETTER with BOTH PCN refs at the top.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top or bottom of any page where it says:
    Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Fruitcake
    Fruitcake Posts: 59,419 Forumite
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    edited 12 July 2021 at 4:15PM
    I suggest you add a cease and desist paragraph about carrying out a for-profit business on your property without your permission. You could also give them a list of exempt vehicle VRMs, and an instruction to contact you before issuing PCNs if any vehicles not on your exempt list are parked in your space.

    Have you established what the Land Registry shows about the land/freehold ownership?
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