Private rental condemned...court?

Wheretostart90

Hi all,  based in Wales* i know legislation can vary

Moved into a property in June 2019 it was left empty 2 year prior and is an old house on a farm.
Straight away we had issues with rats. They would dig through the garage walls up under the flooring through our carpets and into our house.
Landlord saw the holes within the first 2months of us living there.
We also have children.
Landlord agreed for pest control to come out however nothing stopped the rats, they in total made a variety of holes in order to gain entry.
In the last few months we have been worried about the beams in the house as they don't seem to be supported by anything other than the window frame which is cracking by the weight.
The electrics are mental. We are being billed £500+ per month and even though she said they were tested before we moved we were never given any proof. Tiles missing off the roof, damp and so on

The property ECP was rated a G until April 2021 now an E
The property was not registered on rent smart Wales until April 2021
No paperwork was given when we moved in at all.

This only happened then because we were on universal credit and she wanted us to get a new boiler from the government.

We messaged over and over for help
We spoke many times via phone about the issues
We showed her in person yet nothing was done

Environmental health attended and condemned the property straight away and have served a prohibition notice
The landlord was here at the time.

They spoke to her outside so I don't know what is happening regarding the property.

We never paid a deposit so nothing to come back

We are now in emergency accommodation
Trying to find the money to transport our stuff from the house and somewhere to store our things. We do not have any spare money.

We assumed she would have been made to fix the issues then we would have stayed. 

Anyway, everyone I have spoken to, even professionals have said I should take her to court for her negligent behaviour, as we have children and the property was extremely dangerous, plus the distress it's caused us. 

She owns and runs an estate agency herself
This is her childhood home

I'm not sure if I can take anymore on mentally however even if they would cover removal or storage it would really help. What do you all think?
We have not heard from them since the visit

[Deleted User]

Wheretostart90 said:

Hi all,  based in Wales* i know legislation can vary

Moved into a property in June 2019 it was left empty 2 year prior and is an old house on a farm.
Straight away we had issues with rats. They would dig through the garage walls up under the flooring through our carpets and into our house.
Landlord saw the holes within the first 2months of us living there.
We also have children.
Landlord agreed for pest control to come out however nothing stopped the rats, they in total made a variety of holes in order to gain entry.
In the last few months we have been worried about the beams in the house as they don't seem to be supported by anything other than the window frame which is cracking by the weight.
The electrics are mental. We are being billed £500+ per month and even though she said they were tested before we moved we were never given any proof. Tiles missing off the roof, damp and so on

The property ECP was rated a G until April 2021 now an E
The property was not registered on rent smart Wales until April 2021
No paperwork was given when we moved in at all.

This only happened then because we were on universal credit and she wanted us to get a new boiler from the government.

We messaged over and over for help
We spoke many times via phone about the issues
We showed her in person yet nothing was done

Environmental health attended and condemned the property straight away and have served a prohibition notice
The landlord was here at the time.

They spoke to her outside so I don't know what is happening regarding the property.

We never paid a deposit so nothing to come back

We are now in emergency accommodation
Trying to find the money to transport our stuff from the house and somewhere to store our things. We do not have any spare money.

We assumed she would have been made to fix the issues then we would have stayed. 

Anyway, everyone I have spoken to, even professionals have said I should take her to court for her negligent behaviour, as we have children and the property was extremely dangerous, plus the distress it's caused us. 

She owns and runs an estate agency herself
This is her childhood home

I'm not sure if I can take anymore on mentally however even if they would cover removal or storage it would really help. What do you all think?
We have not heard from them since the visit

Do the professionals you’ve spoken to so far include Rent Smart Wales and/or Shelter Cymru? If so what is the exact advice they have given you already? 

deannagone

I don't think you have grounds to take the LL to court, you didn't pay a deposit so can't claim that back.  I suspect you have to thank whoever you are out now, have some form of housing that is actually to a better standard and start again.

Or ask Shelter https://sheltercymru.org.uk/get-advice/repairs-and-bad-conditions/repairs-in-private-tenancies/is-the-place-fit-to-live-in/ , just to see if there is a chance of taking the LL to court.  You might be able to claim damages if furniture was ruined, but unless the furniture was a high price and brand new you'd get very little even for that.

I am sorry you have gone through this.  But it might be better to concentrate on the future.  The council 'might' possibly help with removal and storage of furniture in these circumstances, but I doubt the service will be free.  

You are now homeless.  You could also try and see if there are any charities that work with the homeless who might be able to help with a van or something.  My area has a homeless charity that managed to get a cooker, get it installed and completely furnish a flat for a client who had been previously homeless.  All through making an appeal and asking for professionals when required.  I suppose you could make an appeal on facebook.  And ask your council's housing team if they will help, what options you have?  Do you know anyone with a car or can you get a taxi to get small stuff out of the house?

Wheretostart90

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Wheretostart90 said:

Hi all,  based in Wales* i know legislation can vary

Moved into a property in June 2019 it was left empty 2 year prior and is an old house on a farm.
Straight away we had issues with rats. They would dig through the garage walls up under the flooring through our carpets and into our house.
Landlord saw the holes within the first 2months of us living there.
We also have children.
Landlord agreed for pest control to come out however nothing stopped the rats, they in total made a variety of holes in order to gain entry.
In the last few months we have been worried about the beams in the house as they don't seem to be supported by anything other than the window frame which is cracking by the weight.
The electrics are mental. We are being billed £500+ per month and even though she said they were tested before we moved we were never given any proof. Tiles missing off the roof, damp and so on

The property ECP was rated a G until April 2021 now an E
The property was not registered on rent smart Wales until April 2021
No paperwork was given when we moved in at all.

This only happened then because we were on universal credit and she wanted us to get a new boiler from the government.

We messaged over and over for help
We spoke many times via phone about the issues
We showed her in person yet nothing was done

Environmental health attended and condemned the property straight away and have served a prohibition notice
The landlord was here at the time.

They spoke to her outside so I don't know what is happening regarding the property.

We never paid a deposit so nothing to come back

We are now in emergency accommodation
Trying to find the money to transport our stuff from the house and somewhere to store our things. We do not have any spare money.

We assumed she would have been made to fix the issues then we would have stayed. 

Anyway, everyone I have spoken to, even professionals have said I should take her to court for her negligent behaviour, as we have children and the property was extremely dangerous, plus the distress it's caused us. 

She owns and runs an estate agency herself
This is her childhood home

I'm not sure if I can take anymore on mentally however even if they would cover removal or storage it would really help. What do you all think?
We have not heard from them since the visit

Do the professionals you’ve spoken to so far include Rent Smart Wales and/or Shelter Cymru? If so what is the exact advice they have given you already? 

No, I am going to speak to them today because they have been given me advice to try and get landlord to fix the property. It was environmental health officer who mentioned it. 
Thank you 

Wheretostart90

deannagone said:

I don't think you have grounds to take the LL to court, you didn't pay a deposit so can't claim that back.  I suspect you have to thank whoever you are out now, have some form of housing that is actually to a better standard and start again.

Or ask Shelter https://sheltercymru.org.uk/get-advice/repairs-and-bad-conditions/repairs-in-private-tenancies/is-the-place-fit-to-live-in/ , just to see if there is a chance of taking the LL to court.  You might be able to claim damages if furniture was ruined, but unless the furniture was a high price and brand new you'd get very little even for that.

I am sorry you have gone through this.  But it might be better to concentrate on the future.  The council 'might' possibly help with removal and storage of furniture in these circumstances, but I doubt the service will be free.  

You are now homeless.  You could also try and see if there are any charities that work with the homeless who might be able to help with a van or something.  My area has a homeless charity that managed to get a cooker, get it installed and completely furnish a flat for a client who had been previously homeless.  All through making an appeal and asking for professionals when required.  I suppose you could make an appeal on facebook.  And ask your council's housing team if they will help, what options you have?  Do you know anyone with a car or can you get a taxi to get small stuff out of the house?

Hi, thanks for the reply. 
The carpets were ruined however we did not pay for these they did when we moved in. 

I'm definitely happy to concentrate on the future, I can't wait. It's all a little overwhelming at the moment. 

My issue is I've been given emergency accommodation in England (my home town) which is 2hrs away. 
So I've got each council saying they cannot help but the other should. 
We have a car but it's not big enough to transport larger items 
I'm going to call around and see if we can hire a van cheaply maybe a family member will help. 

I am so grateful environmental health listened because for a very long time I've been made to feel I'm over exaggerating and it's not as bad. So I know it's hard right now but it'll be for the end in the long run once we are back with family. 

I will look into the charities. I will know more today once I have more details of this house. 

We are in emergency accommodation in Wales for now until the house in England is ready. 

Thank you 

AdrianC

"Take her to court" for what?

Why did you choose to stay in the property for two years until forced to leave by Environmental Health?

Legally, I suspect that the tenancy has now been frustrated, so ceased.

ProDave

Well at least a landlord who wants a tenant out now knows another way to achieve that, get the property condemned.

Is there some charity that could help with moving your furniture?

deannagone

I have been in emergency accommodation, this is the beginning of the end of the nightmare you have been living in.  But as you say, there are some hassles still.  But.., nothing compared to what you have already been through, for so long (bad grammar, apologies).

If you've been in the same area for 5 years, you should have qualified for local housing help (to find permanent housing).  I'd DEFINITELY phone shelter just to check the LA is doing what they should be (just in case they are gatekeeping). Unless, of course, you prefer to move back to your home town.  But if you do, I'm afraid you have to expect to move your furnishings.  

[Deleted User]

Wheretostart90 said:

Lover_of_Lycra said:

Wheretostart90 said:

Hi all,  based in Wales* i know legislation can vary

Moved into a property in June 2019 it was left empty 2 year prior and is an old house on a farm.
Straight away we had issues with rats. They would dig through the garage walls up under the flooring through our carpets and into our house.
Landlord saw the holes within the first 2months of us living there.
We also have children.
Landlord agreed for pest control to come out however nothing stopped the rats, they in total made a variety of holes in order to gain entry.
In the last few months we have been worried about the beams in the house as they don't seem to be supported by anything other than the window frame which is cracking by the weight.
The electrics are mental. We are being billed £500+ per month and even though she said they were tested before we moved we were never given any proof. Tiles missing off the roof, damp and so on

The property ECP was rated a G until April 2021 now an E
The property was not registered on rent smart Wales until April 2021
No paperwork was given when we moved in at all.

This only happened then because we were on universal credit and she wanted us to get a new boiler from the government.

We messaged over and over for help
We spoke many times via phone about the issues
We showed her in person yet nothing was done

Environmental health attended and condemned the property straight away and have served a prohibition notice
The landlord was here at the time.

They spoke to her outside so I don't know what is happening regarding the property.

We never paid a deposit so nothing to come back

We are now in emergency accommodation
Trying to find the money to transport our stuff from the house and somewhere to store our things. We do not have any spare money.

We assumed she would have been made to fix the issues then we would have stayed. 

Anyway, everyone I have spoken to, even professionals have said I should take her to court for her negligent behaviour, as we have children and the property was extremely dangerous, plus the distress it's caused us. 

She owns and runs an estate agency herself
This is her childhood home

I'm not sure if I can take anymore on mentally however even if they would cover removal or storage it would really help. What do you all think?
We have not heard from them since the visit

Do the professionals you’ve spoken to so far include Rent Smart Wales and/or Shelter Cymru? If so what is the exact advice they have given you already? 

No, I am going to speak to them today because they have been given me advice to try and get landlord to fix the property. It was environmental health officer who mentioned it. 
Thank you 

Shelter do help tenants take landlords to court. I’m not sure if it’s exactly for this type of thing but they’d be far better placed to advise than me.  

There is the Homes (Fitness for Habitation) Act 2018 that allows tenants to take their landlords to court but it only applies to tenancies in England. There might be similar legislation in Wales though. 

Shelter should also be able to help you with the two councils you’re stuck between. 

Section62

Wheretostart90 said:

The property ECP was rated a G until April 2021 now an E

This makes me wonder how a property this bad can get a fig leaf of respectability of any kind of EPC. (Rhetorical question)

Wheretostart90 said:

Anyway, everyone I have spoken to, even professionals have said I should take her to court for her negligent behaviour, as we have children and the property was extremely dangerous, plus the distress it's caused us.

But did you, any of the people living with you, or any of your possessions actually come to harm?  If not, then what precisely did the professionals think you had grounds to take her to court for negligent behaviour?

E.g. Did you get a structural engineer to inspect the building and did they report "the property was extremely dangerous"?  When you say you were "worried about the beams in the house as they don't seem to be supported by anything other than the window frame" - was this something checked by a professional?

If you do go to court you would need something more than your own opinion of how beams should be supported to demonstrate that your lives were put in danger.  It isn't unknown in older buildings (which this sounds like) for the 'window frame' to be structural. Moreover, if you had concerns about the structural safety of the building, why didn't you contact the council at that point?

None of the above diminishes the wrong of this building being rented to you in a substandard state, but if you decide to take action you do need professional advice on what (if anything) you can reasonably claim against the landlord, how much it will cost you, and the standard of evidence you'll need. That advice needs to be far better than what professionals have told you about "negligent behaviour" already.  Whether or not the local authority will take action against the landlord is another matter.

steampowered

Have a read of your tenancy agreement.

Does it say anything about what should happen if the property becomes uninhabitable?