Bus lane fine paid by lease company, no right to appeal, elevated price due to lack of action

soldave

Looking for some advice from you good people. Back on March 10 I inadvertently drove down a bus lane for 50m, realised I had made a mistake, turned around and drove out again. Around a month later I received a notice from the council stating that they would impose two fines on me for 2 bus lane offences within 90 seconds of each other. I sent an email of appeal to them but they said they could no correspond with me about the matter and would only deal with the leasing company (Hitachi Capital), but at the time there was no action needed from me as this was just an initial notification to me. I replied once more but again they stated they would not consider any email from me until Hitachi pointed them in my direction.

Fast forward four months from the offence and Hitachi have sent me an email stating that they charging me £90 for each offence, as well as an administration fee for each offence. This was the first time they have mentioned it to me and said that it would be automatically taken from my direct debit next month. No information on how to dispute this charge was provided, and the amount charged per offence was £90. This was higher than the initial £60 imposed by the council but an amount which gets elevated to £90 if no payment is provided within 28 days. I should also add there was no opportunity to pay the reduced £30 per offence for payment within 14 days.

It appears to my uneducated eyes that they have denied me a right to appeal, and also that the amount I have to pay is increased by £60 due to their lack in taking prompt action in this matter. I wanted to check whether this seems appropriate to you out there.

I think the contract wording is important here, and it states the following:

"Hitachi Capital (UK) PLC will recharge you for the full amount any motoring or parking fines and any other charges we have to pay in respect of the vehicle. We will also charge you administration fee of £15.00 for handling any motoring offences on your behalf in relation to the vehicle."

Can anyone offer some advice or thoughts in this matter. I have sent a complaint to them about this but am unsure what their response will be.

Many thanks in advance

born_again

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

soldave

born_again said:

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

I did this evening after letter was received earlier today 

AdrianC

soldave said:

born_again said:

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

I did this evening after letter was received earlier today 

But not in April, when you first found out that they would only deal with the registered keeper?

It's a non-endorseable offence, no points, so the RK can pay it without it needing to be officially transferred to the driver. The RK had no way of knowing you wished to appeal it, because you didn't contact them to tell them.

You agreed to them paying it and recharging you, along with an admin charge, when you took the lease out. All perfectly normal.

soldave

AdrianC said:

soldave said:

born_again said:

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

I did this evening after letter was received earlier today 

But not in April, when you first found out that they would only deal with the registered keeper?

It's a non-endorseable offence, no points, so the RK can pay it without it needing to be officially transferred to the driver. The RK had no way of knowing you wished to appeal it, because you didn't contact them to tell them.

You agreed to them paying it and recharging you, along with an admin charge, when you took the lease out. All perfectly normal.

Understood. Would the RK also not be aware I would want to pay the notice promptly, and therefore wait until the higher amount was payable? I'd have had to tell them I wanted them to respond promptly and provide payment otherwise they will not do so?

Just checking so I'm sure of what to do in the future.

AdrianC

soldave said:

Just checking so I'm sure of what to do in the future.

I'd suggest "obey roadsigns" is a good start.

soldave

AdrianC said:

soldave said:

Just checking so I'm sure of what to do in the future.

I'd suggest "obey roadsigns" is a good start.

Yeah that's a very good call. I was basically forced into there by someone changing lane at a set of lights. Alternative would have been being hit so i foolishly in retrospect chose the evasive option.

Was more meaning after the event in how to deal with the leasing company 

born_again

AdrianC said:

soldave said:

born_again said:

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

I did this evening after letter was received earlier today 

But not in April, when you first found out that they would only deal with the registered keeper?

It's a non-endorseable offence, no points, so the RK can pay it without it needing to be officially transferred to the driver. The RK had no way of knowing you wished to appeal it, because you didn't contact them to tell them.

You agreed to them paying it and recharging you, along with an admin charge, when you took the lease out. All perfectly normal.

In exactly the same way a hire car co would deal with it. Pay the fine & then charge the customer...

If you don't tell them, they will only follow standard procedure.

soldave

born_again said:

AdrianC said:

soldave said:

born_again said:

Did you email Hitachi about the offence?

I did this evening after letter was received earlier today 

But not in April, when you first found out that they would only deal with the registered keeper?

It's a non-endorseable offence, no points, so the RK can pay it without it needing to be officially transferred to the driver. The RK had no way of knowing you wished to appeal it, because you didn't contact them to tell them.

You agreed to them paying it and recharging you, along with an admin charge, when you took the lease out. All perfectly normal.

In exactly the same way a hire car co would deal with it. Pay the fine & then charge the customer...

If you don't tell them, they will only follow standard procedure.

Fair enough. They've said they'll look into it for me but makes sense. I think I was probably just a little surprised as Hitachi had contacted a friend to inform them of a similar pending notice within the appeal period, but my bad for not going to them.

[Deleted User]

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Manxman_in_exile

soldave said:

... Around a month later I received a notice from the council stating that they would impose two fines on me for 2 bus lane offences within 90 seconds of each other. I sent an email of appeal to them but they said they could no correspond with me about the matter and would only deal with the leasing company (Hitachi Capital), but at the time there was no action needed from me as this was just an initial notification to me. I replied once more but again they stated they would not consider any email from me until Hitachi pointed them in my direction.

...

Apologies if I'm being thick (it is after midnight) but if Hitachi are the Registered Keeper, why did the council write to you at all with an "initial notification" (whatever that is) of the contravention?  How did the council know who you are and your address?

[DELETED USER] said:

OP makes a fair point, there is a general expectation in law that you minimise costs for the other party where practical. Seems like they could have easily saved £60 by paying in reasonable time.

I think that's a fair point as well - I'm not sure Hitachi have dealt with this properly.  If I were the OP I'd go and ask on pepipoo:

FightBack Forums -> Council Tickets & Clamping and Decriminalised Notices (pepipoo.com)

I'm certainly no expert but from reading several threads on Pepipoo I'm not sure it's as clear cut as some posters above suggest.  My (admittedly bare) understanding is that to minimise the cost to their client, the hire company need to transfer liability to the driver.  They need to do it properly and the council need to respond to the transfer request properly as well, otherwise the ticket is null and void.  If I recall correctly, Hitachi are fairly notorious for being useless at following the correct procedures and for messing everything up as a result.  I think the view on Pepipoo is also that if the contravention ends up costing more than was necessary because the hire company haven't dealt with the ticket properly, then they can't pass the additional cost onto the driver, which if you think about it must be right.  The hire company can't charge the driver for additional costs they've incurred because of their ( the hire company's) own incompetence.

I'm not sure why people think the OP should have notified Hitachi after receiving "initial notification" of the contravention from the council?  If Hitachi is the RK and not the OP, the council had no business notifying the OP -  the council needed to notify Hitachi, not the OP, and it needed to be done within the prescribed time limit.

Of course I may be completely wrong, but I don't see the OP has anything to lose by asking on Pepipoo, so that is what I suggest he does...

EDIT:  I'd also argue that if Hitachi are  charging the OP an admin fee every time they do this, then they have a contractual duty to perform the relevant admin tasks with proper skill and care, otherwise Hitachi are in breach of the hire contract themselves.  If the bus lane charge has increased in cost because Hitachi took too long to deal with it, then they obviously didn't exercise proper care and skill in dealing with the tickets and have breached the contract.

OP - go and ask on Pepipoo (but don't use a Hotmail a/c - the site doesn'tlike them)!