Inheritance claim stress !!

Keep_pedalling

xylophone said:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices/content/103458

The evidence of the financial status of the beneficiaries may be required by the court to enable full consideration of the claim of the person excluded under the will?

But only a court can demand such information, there is no reason the OP should simply hand over account info because it has been asked for by the solicitor.

doodling

The first thing is that there is no guidance to judges as to how to balance the various factors mention by TBagpuss.  Please read Ilott (Respondent) v The Blue Cross and others (Appellants) (supremecourt.uk), especially the comments at the end of the judgement.

A judge could decide that the estrangement between your sister and her Mum is a major factor or irrelevant.  A judge's opinion could also vary massively on what reasonable provision for maintenance of your sister is, from nothing (possible) to the whole of your Mum's estate (unlikely!).  The supreme court decision should probably push a judge to pay more attention to your Mum's wishes than your sister's claim but there are no absolutes.

I would expect your solicitor to want to understand your financial position so that it could be considered in comparison to your sister's so as to assess the extent to which her claim for maintenance is reasonable in comparison to your claim under the will.

It is not clear to me whether that information should be supplied to your sister (and/or her solicitor).  If this was a normal civil dispute then the process is generally that each side states their claims at each other and if they can't agree then the judge will decide for them.  In this case, because even a hypothetical "reasonable man" will have no idea what approach a judge will take to making a decision, I can't actually see the benefit in sharing details with the other side before the case, unless they are completely overwhelming.  Having said that, I have no experience in this area and I'm not a solicitor - presumably your solicitor knows what they are doing so be guided by their advice.

I'd also be mentally preparing to accept that your sister might be awarded something.  Your solicitor might be able to advise on the likelihood of that but bear in mind the above.

I don't know the details or size of the estate but if the estranged sister got a ninth of it, or even a sixth, that might be preferable to an acrimonious legal battle.  Think of it as a price for getting rid of that sister once and for all...

Monty3160

Sea_Shell said:

So is the claim more likely to succeed, if the current beneficiaries are deemed "wealthy" enough by the courts?

Could the claimant actually end up with more than a 1/3rd share if they can show they need it more!!?

I am seriously struggling to understand this ? I am fortunate in having a very hard working husband that works 2 jobs to provide us with the life we have . I am currently not working as I gave up my part time job to care for my mum when she was very poorly and came to live with us . I kept a parting job so that I could attend hospital appointments and take my mum shopping when she needed me too . It’s like we are going to be penalised for doing the right thing ? Im really struggling to get my head around it all .

doodling

Hi,

Monty3160 said:

Sea_Shell said:

So is the claim more likely to succeed, if the current beneficiaries are deemed "wealthy" enough by the courts?

Could the claimant actually end up with more than a 1/3rd share if they can show they need it more!!?

I am seriously struggling to understand this ? I am fortunate in having a very hard working husband that works 2 jobs to provide us with the life we have . I am currently not working as I gave up my part time job to care for my mum when she was very poorly and came to live with us . I kept a parting job so that I could attend hospital appointments and take my mum shopping when she needed me too . It’s like we are going to be penalised for doing the right thing ? Im really struggling to get my head around it all .

You are unlikely to be penalised for looking after your Mum.  I would expect that your sacrifice would be "(g)any other matter, including the conduct of the applicant or any other person, which in the circumstances of the case the court may consider relevant.".

If you have read the Ilott judgement, you may get the impression that the Supreme Court wasn't wholly in agreement with the original judge when he made the £50,000 award and had the supreme court judges been sitting in the district court at the time it is possible that that claimant may have received nothing - the nature of the appeal didn't give them the opportunity to quash the original decision.

My point is that legal actions, especially under the Inheritance (...) Act 1975 can have unpredictable results.  You may want to consider whether you want your day in court (where your sister's claim may well be rejected) with the cost and angst that brings or whether coming to an agreement is a tolerable alternative.

Despite what I've written, I'm not trying to dissuade you from defending the claim - it is your absolute right to do so.  I would be expecting your solicitor to be telling you his views on the likelihood of a successful defence - in my view they ought to be much better than 50% but that is purely from a lay perspective, without all the facts.

TBagpuss

The other thing to be aware of regarding the Ilott case is that the money wasn't left to another individual - it was left to a charity, and there was, as I recall, evidence that the testator had no particularly interest in or association with the charity or it's aims, she just wanted to ensure her daughter got nothing. I think it was also a consideration that the money (or some of it) had come from the daughter's father and insurance or pensions of his, so I think the fact that it would have been intended by him to have supported his daughters as well as his widow was a consideration.

A court is likely to be les willing to take money away from an individual, as the impact on them of doing so is likely to be greater than if it is being lost by a charity which had no prior expectations of the windfall.

There have been a small number of cases since Ilott. Ball, for instance, involved a case where a claim by adult children was unsuccessful - they had become estranged from both parents after having made allegations of historic child abuse against their father (some of which, at least, he admitted) They were nevertheless unsuccessful in claiming against their mother's estate .(The court did suggest that the outcome might have been different had the claim been against father's estate) 

Nahajac and Fowle was a case where the claimant daughters was successful - she got £30,000 from a £235,000 estate. Factors a court considered were that she has made efforts to improve her relationship with her father and he was described as being 'stubborn and intransigent' and in addition, she was seeking money to enable her to achieve a specific aim (she wanted to train as a vet.nurse). Her original claim was fairly modest, for £50,000, I think 

Finally, any claim is about capitalizing maintenance to cover the claimant's needs, not about replacing the the testators will with different provisions that a court thinks are fairer.

Finally, court proceedings are expensive, so it may well be that you are advised to make an offer to your sister in order to avoid speanind lrge sums and lots of time fighting

Robert_McGeddon

Monty3160 said:

.... and saying she hasn’t been able to clothe her kids for the last 2 yrs , this is absolute bull !!

So your Mum didn't support her during this time? It seems she didn't need (or receive) your Mum's help to manage. Sounds a little opportunistic.

Monty3160 said:

So now we are looking at 10,000 solicitors fee to follow our mums wishes !

TBagpuss said:

Finally, court proceedings are expensive, so it may well be that you are advised to make an offer to your sister in order to avoid speanind lrge sums and lots of time fighting

How is your sister financing her side of the legal action? If she 'can't clothe her kids' then finding £10K from her own resources might be tricky - and if she did it would imply she could clothe the kids! I speculate we are possibly looking at an opportunistic no-win, no-fee solicitor. The cost of a caveat and posting a few bank statements with a covering letter are low. Might be a try-on. Further speculation: If it went to court and your sister won, how much might she get? £50K? How would she split that with the solicitor? 50/50? Sounds fine for them both.  At £20K it wouldn't cover the solicitor's time costs and disbursements. But if she lost, possibly with an order for the Estate's costs, what happens then? I'm thinking particularly of her solicitor's position, both financially and professionally. I suspect her solicitor could be pressured more than your sister herself.

Anyway, much speculation!  You have engaged a solicitor. You are paying for expert advice. You should probably rely on that more than well-meaning thoughts on a forum.