Car insurance- staff running errands

Sandtree

MattMattMattUK said:

doningtonphil said:

Hello.
We are a limited company with no company vehicles.  Form time to ime local suppliers have items ready for us which it would be quicker for us to collect than await delivery.  What is the position regarding members of staff 'nipping in' on the way to or from work to collect/drop off items?
One member of staff asked about business cover on the standard SDP+commute policy and was quoted over £4000!.

I know there is a view of 'well who is going to know' but which level of cover would entirely cover such detours?  At times it would be handy for someone to 'nip out' during the day to get something so wont be part of their journey to/from home.  COuld these be covered too?

I hope you can help

Many thanks

I think that your employee either asked for the wrong thing, or has wider issues with their policy as adding business usage to a policy costs very little, the difference on my policy is around £15. 

And does that you delivering/collecting goods @mattmattmattuk as thats is what is going to be hitting the costs

MattMattMattUK

Sandtree said:

MattMattMattUK said:

doningtonphil said:

Hello.
We are a limited company with no company vehicles.  Form time to ime local suppliers have items ready for us which it would be quicker for us to collect than await delivery.  What is the position regarding members of staff 'nipping in' on the way to or from work to collect/drop off items?
One member of staff asked about business cover on the standard SDP+commute policy and was quoted over £4000!.

I know there is a view of 'well who is going to know' but which level of cover would entirely cover such detours?  At times it would be handy for someone to 'nip out' during the day to get something so wont be part of their journey to/from home.  COuld these be covered too?

I hope you can help

Many thanks

I think that your employee either asked for the wrong thing, or has wider issues with their policy as adding business usage to a policy costs very little, the difference on my policy is around £15. 

And does that you delivering/collecting goods @mattmattmattuk as thats is what is going to be hitting the costs

As an occasional part of business, not as my main usage. I can not operate as a courier, if I pick up a box, run something to a client in a rush, take items to a meeting (although in person meetings still seem a long way off) etc. 

Business use provides cover for driving in connection with a business or employment. Your certificate of motor insurance will show if your policy includes business use and the type of business use you have.

On the policy, under the "The Policy Covers:", the relevant section says "use by the Policyholder in connection with the business of the Policyholder" and that business is listed as "Company Director - Proprietor / Consultant - Marketing / Consultant - Film & TV Production". The occasional delivering or collection to or from a customer or supplier easily falls under that definition, but I would not try to argue that daily deliveries would.

Sandtree

MattMattMattUK said:

Sandtree said:

MattMattMattUK said:

doningtonphil said:

Hello.
We are a limited company with no company vehicles.  Form time to ime local suppliers have items ready for us which it would be quicker for us to collect than await delivery.  What is the position regarding members of staff 'nipping in' on the way to or from work to collect/drop off items?
One member of staff asked about business cover on the standard SDP+commute policy and was quoted over £4000!.

I know there is a view of 'well who is going to know' but which level of cover would entirely cover such detours?  At times it would be handy for someone to 'nip out' during the day to get something so wont be part of their journey to/from home.  COuld these be covered too?

I hope you can help

Many thanks

I think that your employee either asked for the wrong thing, or has wider issues with their policy as adding business usage to a policy costs very little, the difference on my policy is around £15. 

And does that you delivering/collecting goods @mattmattmattuk as thats is what is going to be hitting the costs

As an occasional part of business, not as my main usage. I can not operate as a courier, if I pick up a box, run something to a client in a rush, take items to a meeting (although in person meetings still seem a long way off) etc. 

Business use provides cover for driving in connection with a business or employment. Your certificate of motor insurance will show if your policy includes business use and the type of business use you have.

On the policy, under the "The Policy Covers:", the relevant section says "use by the Policyholder in connection with the business of the Policyholder" and that business is listed as "Company Director - Proprietor / Consultant - Marketing / Consultant - Film & TV Production". The occasional delivering or collection to or from a customer or supplier easily falls under that definition, but I would not try to argue that daily deliveries would.

Who's the policy with?

If you look at the Direct Line wording it is similar but if you go down further into the general exclusions it states:

 To goods carried for hire or reward.

There are no carve outs for the section so even if you have business class on the policy you are still prohibited on carry goods if your being paid to do so. The employees don't own the goods and are being paid to transport them.

Grumpy_chap

Sandtree said:

If you look at the Direct Line wording it is similar but if you go down further into the general exclusions it states:

 To goods carried for hire or reward.

There are no carve outs for the section so even if you have business class on the policy you are still prohibited on carry goods if your being paid to do so. The employees don't own the goods and are being paid to transport them.

I have never understood that term in that way. 

I always thought "goods for hire or reward" as referring to items that the driver is selling, or items where the goods are being carried as part of a fully trading delivery / multi-drop service.

Your extreme interpretation would mean that if I stop at the supermarket and collect some biscuits for the team meeting, then I am not insured to do so.

Sandtree

Grumpy_chap said:
Your extreme interpretation would mean that if I stop at the supermarket and collect some biscuits for the team meeting, then I am not insured to do so.

Getting a little pedantic but...

1) Depends who owns the biscuits, so if you are doing it off your own back to be a nice person then they are yours and so not "goods"

2) Depends also if you are explicitly being instructed to do it, again if you are doing it off your own back even if you intend to expense them after its not for "reward" 

Arguably if the company gives you time during office hours and a corporate card to go in your car to buy supplies then technically that is hire and reward.

The lines clearly blur and particularly when you get the gig economy, even in the 90s the company I worked for had "local couriers" of which many were parents that got say 5 parcels a day to deliver and 1-2 to collect and most did them as part of the school run etc... is that a real multidrop courier? They're just doing something on the way to/back from something else (and only got 30p a parcel delivered and 50p a parcel collected)

Each insurer will take their own view as to where the line is crossed but its a fairly significant thing for an employer to ask its employees to take the risk and given the £4,000 premium (assuming it isnt an 18 year old with a lambo) would suggest their broker has taken the view its Hire & Reward

vacheron

OP. You mentioned your staff "collecting" items 3 times in your original post, but I think things got complicated when you added collect / DROP OFF the second time you mentioned it.

My wife has business use on her policy. The wording for her policy is as follows (in it's entirety).

Permitted Use:

Business for policyholder only

Use for social, domestic and pleasure purposes and travel

between home and permanent place of business or

employment. Use for the Policyholder in person in connection

with his/her business or profession, subject to the

exclusions below.

The Policy does not cover:

• Use to secure the release of a motor vehicle, other than the vehicle identified above, which has been seized by, or on behalf of any public authority.

• Merchandise delivery or hire and reward

• Use on the Nürburgring Nordschleife, or any racetrack, circuit or prepared course. Any formal or informal race, whether prearranged or not. Used to participate in any test, competition or organised motoring event.

The addition of business use on her policy cost a whopping £6 extra on her premium.

She regularly collects things from suppliers as part of her work, however, if she were to drop something off to someone she could fall foul of the "delivery" clause in the policy. Do your staff have to deliver, or is it primarily collections?


P.S. The ridiculous thing is that the "merchandise delivery" clause is also present on my S.D.P. insurance so, by some peoples' interpretation. I am not allowed to drive to the post office to post an item I sold on eBay on my way home or my insurance could be considered void!   

Brie

Sandtree said:

Grumpy_chap said:
Your extreme interpretation would mean that if I stop at the supermarket and collect some biscuits for the team meeting, then I am not insured to do so.

Getting a little pedantic but...

1) Depends who owns the biscuits, so if you are doing it off your own back to be a nice person then they are yours and so not "goods"

2) Depends also if you are explicitly being instructed to do it, again if you are doing it off your own back even if you intend to expense them after its not for "reward" 

Arguably if the company gives you time during office hours and a corporate card to go in your car to buy supplies then technically that is hire and reward.

Sandtree - I'm happy for you to be as pedantic as you want to be....

My issue (well it wasn't until I read this) is that I'm the donkey at our office who ensures we have milk to go with our tea or coffee.  Sometimes I'm also asked to get biscuits for the meetings.  I never thought at all that this was business use of a vehicle as we all do similar things occasionally - a manager will pick up some wine to give as prizes, we have a fund raiser for the food bank and then go and buy a trunk load of pot noodle or something and deliver it, etc. 

But I'm the only one who buys things regularly, including in the last year some IT bits and pieces for those working from home.  I would get why this last one might be questioned but not stopping at the Co op to buy a litre of milk.  Does it make any difference if it's money out of my pocket which is then reimbursed?  I've never had a corporate card.

Sandtree

Ultimately its down to your insurers... many people don't realise that nipping across to the other office in their car for a meeting means they need business class (1) cover rather than commuting but thankfully adding business class 1 tends to cost next to nothing if done at the time of purchasing the policy.

Unfortunately life is full of things that you are supposedly required to just know, at least with insurance they can point you to the policy book. One of the peops that work for me got stung last year because no one had told her that when you earn over £100k you must do a self assessment tax form but HMRC didn't take ignorance as an excuse and fined her.

Savvy_Sue

One reason it might cost £00s is related to the kind of vehicle.

I reminded one of my colleagues that before they claimed mileage, I'd need to see that they had business insurance. They got a quote: £00s. I suggested shopping around: turns out they drive a van, not a car, so adding business insurance ain't cheap. I pointed out that no business insurance = no mileage claim - and no using the van for visits. They do have a bike, and we do pay bike mileage!

sevenhills

When I renewed my car insurance last year, they added business use for nothing. I drive a vehicle transporting passengers for a local authority.

I don't believe I would be able to transport passengers, but that is what 'my business is.

I just renewed it today, £290