County Court Claim - Parking Eye / Birchanger Service Area Bishop Strotford

estevenin

Alright, got it. Since I mentionned that it was sent on the 17th, then my defence was late anyway, and they wouldn't log it in today (they would have been willing to accept the internal error thing) because the 1st email was late anyway, so no way of pressure here, the evidence is worthless.

I though I was on time, that's a pitty, would have been a good defence. I will then follow the set-it aside process, and update here accordingly.

Jenni_D

Can you get a set-aside? What justification will you be using? (You were aware of the claim - you acknowledged it. You simply didn't file a defence in time. I'm struggling to see what grounds you would have for a successful SA claim).

estevenin

Jenni_D said:

Can you get a set-aside? What justification will you be using? (You were aware of the claim - you acknowledged it. You simply didn't file a defence in time. I'm struggling to see what grounds you would have for a successful SA claim).

Thanks for the info. As I was checking all the cases in the forum, I realized that it's all about the claim beeing served at a different address. Which doesn't apply to me as I have acknowledged (I did change address in between and missed a lot of mails but since I have ackoledged the claim, can't use it as an argument). Not sure if the "having a prospect of winning" would be enough to have it set aside ? Also mentionning (and proving) that I have sent the defence before Default CCJ and before Parking Eye default's application ? Based on several answer's here 17th was 2 days early, based on others it was 4 days late, so still confused if I can argue that it was on time, but if not argue that it was before the judgement, could work.

I'v also read somewhere about court's discretion, under CPR 13.3...

Looking to hear your thoughs on that, or if you see any typical winning argument I could use, or else if you think I should not set aside for any reason.

That beeing said, if I do not have enough grounds to apply for a set aside :

1/ Does it hurt doing the procedure anyway and loosing ? (Without considering the 255 fee) I mean, will I still be able to pay and apply to remove it, or if I loose the set-aside I also loose possibility of removing it in the future ?
2/ If I do not proceed with set-aside or if I loose at the set-aside do I still have any way of defending this case or this is it ?
3/ If I do not have a way of defending it, is there a procedure to remove this CCJ ? I'v read that paying does not remove it, I'v also read that paying within 30 days allows me to remove it, so I'm a bit confused.

Thank you again

Coupon-mad

You emailed the defence before they put in for judgement. Ring up and speak to a manager tomorrow and this time have in your head what to say.

Main point, your defence WAS deemed delivered because you sent it by email to the right email address and got no ‘failure/undelivered message, so the CCBC had it all along.  The chap you spoke to was mistaken, it clearly arrived.  It’s in their spam or inbox if they search.

Be more robust and speak to a manager who tells you the truth and understands what ‘service’ means.  The very fact this clerk thought you only had 28 days shows he didn’t know what he was talking about and you HAD TO ask for a manager to complain.

The facts are that you easily beat the Claimant with your defence even if it was emailed 2 days late and that means the error in overlooking your email MUST be put right.

Be more forceful and wear shoes and stand up for  this phone call, that makes you feel more businesslike and empowered.

Redx

This one was a few days late , filed today , logged , beat the default for the claimant

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279390/highview-parking-ltd-county-court-claim-3-years-after-apparent-pcn/p1

You can see that we told them to keep on top of it

1) no idea , legal questions , nothing to do with Parking , this isn't a legal forum

2) you need the claim to be made live in order to defend it

3) paying it off within the time limit on the recent letter stops it from hitting your credit rating , typically with 30 days , but I wouldn't be late or leave it to the last minute , pay promptly , it's gone , don't and it's there for 6 years

I suspect that if you had asked us early last week we would have said , check your claim history , you say , nothing there , we say send it again and check for an email auto receipt

Just heard back from my warranty case , the embargo on my emailed attachments has been lifted , so I now have an email auto receipt reply and copies of all the emails that were stuck in their system

Proving that sending is not proof of receipt without confirmation !! Different issues , but telling them the emails were in my sent folder didn't assist until they realised the anti spam and virus check had stuck them into the ether

KeithP

Oh dear. What can I say? How embarrassing.

I have gone back and rechecked my calculations and I did indeed make a mistake.

I know how important it is to get these things right and I cannot understand how I got this one wrong.

So sorry that this has caused you grief.

I can only suggest that you follow @Coupon-mad's most recent suggestion.

estevenin

KeithP said:

Oh dear. What can I say? How embarrassing.

I have gone back and rechecked my calculations and I did indeed make a mistake.

I know how important it is to get these things right and I cannot understand how I got this one wrong.

So sorry that this has caused you grief.

I can only suggest that you follow @Coupon-mad's most recent suggestion.

You could ask ParkingEye for a free parking pass, they hit the jackpot on that one Just joking, no hard feelings, a lot of your time and help is put to this forum and mistakes happen. Small hiccup for all the good given, I am grateful for what all of you is fighting for here.

Redx said:

This one was a few days late , filed today , logged , beat the default for the claimant

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6279390/highview-parking-ltd-county-court-claim-3-years-after-apparent-pcn/p1

You can see that we told them to keep on top of it

It was luckily logged before CCJ. The CCJ is issued in my case, difficult to have a customer service person or even a manager to remove it, in order to log my defence. They have even returned my email from yesterday already, saying that, it is too late to be logged.

Redx said:

1) no idea , legal questions , nothing to do with Parking , this isn't a legal forum

2) you need the claim to be made live in order to defend it

3) paying it off within the time limit on the recent letter stops it from hitting your credit rating , typically with 30 days , but I wouldn't be late or leave it to the last minute , pay promptly , it's gone , don't and it's there for 6 years

I suspect that if you had asked us early last week we would have said , check your claim history , you say , nothing there , we say send it again and check for an email auto receipt

Just heard back from my warranty case , the embargo on my emailed attachments has been lifted , so I now have an email auto receipt reply and copies of all the emails that were stuck in their system

Proving that sending is not proof of receipt without confirmation !! Different issues , but telling them the emails were in my sent folder didn't assist until they realised the anti spam and virus check had stuck them into the ether

Thank you for 1) 2) 3) responses.

Yes, definitely. This will serve me as a lesson, as I will now be aware that an automated receipt should be expected, and that I need to check the MCOL history every day after. Will know for next times, I'm sure there will be. Good idea to add this to the NEWBIES thread or in the Court Procedure post, would have saved a lot of troubles, might help future claimants too.

Yes, I suspect that this is the case for them, blocked by their anti-spam program, they might not even have the email anywhere there if it was automatically destroyed like yours. Nothing bouced back to me, so definitely either stuck in their anti-spam, or destroyed there. In any case, I doubt that the court would be one to take the trouble to bother their tech team to look if that's the case.

Coupon-mad said:

You emailed the defence before they put in for judgement. Ring up and speak to a manager tomorrow and this time have in your head what to say.

Main point, your defence WAS deemed delivered because you sent it by email to the right email address and got no ‘failure/undelivered message, so the CCBC had it all along.  The chap you spoke to was mistaken, it clearly arrived.  It’s in their spam or inbox if they search.

Be more robust and speak to a manager who tells you the truth and understands what ‘service’ means.  The very fact this clerk thought you only had 28 days shows he didn’t know what he was talking about and you HAD TO ask for a manager to complain.

The facts are that you easily beat the Claimant with your defence even if it was emailed 2 days late and that means the error in overlooking your email MUST be put right.

Be more forceful and wear shoes and stand up for  this phone call, that makes you feel more businesslike and empowered.

I will do as suggested and phone back again tomorrow. I did explained today that it was sent before judgement, but because it was late in the first place, they wouldn't be able to do anything. So even if that email arrived, and they find it, their argument is solid and it's hard to explain to them that they should log a late defence right now, even if it was before CCJ.

The guy did mention the 28 days after service, 13th of July, so he had it right (He put me on hold for a bit and went to ask for that information though). I think he also looked up the emails, not sure how deeply.

I was quite forceful, not emotional or even upset, but I did recognize that regardless of what happened, if what he said was true, then I was indeed late. If they repeat the same again, and say to me that I was late, I couldn't say no, indeed, now I know, it was.

I agree that the defence would stand, but now that CCJ is issued, not sure that them, or even a manager, have the authority to erase that anyway, even if they felt for the email problem. So even if I speak to the nicest person on earth, making it right might not even possible.

So my only hope to defend would be a set aside. The cost of the set aside is more than the fine, which means my best interest is to pay. I am interested in the win, even if it costs more than the loss. However I would only go that route if a loss of the set aside, does not keep the CCJ on files (As it will not be paid within 30 days).

So I will phone tomorrow as advised, with little hope but I will make them explain the loss of my email, then I will phone citizen advice in order to see my options regarding the set aside, as I apparently have little argument to win. If no impact on the credit history I will keep up the fight. Will update the post tomorrow.

Coupon-mad said:

The Government Consultation about private parking charges is now open!

 https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/private-parking-charges-discount-rates-debt-collection-fees-and-appeals-charter-further-technical-consultation

The MHCLG are listening and want evidence and responses about:

- parking charge levels

- the discount for early payment 

- the appeals charter (should it be a cancellation charter do we/you think, not £20 for a short undefined time then walloped back up to full PCN plus add-one, as if nothing happened and people get sued anyway?)

- the so called ‘debt recovery’ charges (that are included in non-ParkingEye court claims despite the fact the PPCs don’t actually get paid by PPCs because the ‘debt recovery’ firms operate on a ‘no win no fee’ basis, as advertised yet again in the Exhibitors page of the upcoming IPC Conference).

Please have your say and tell your driving friends and relatives about it. Note that the last FULL day it’s open is August 26th so don’t try to do it later.

I remembered your previous post about keeping an eye on the forum, have found your post and replied to the consultation. Hope that contributes.

KeithP

estevenin said:

 did explained today that it was sent before judgement, but because it was late in the first place, they wouldn't be able to do anything. So even if that email arrived, and they find it, their argument is solid and it's hard to explain to them that they should log a late defence right now, even if it was before CCJ.

No, their argument is not solid.

 A Defence is only 'too late' if the Claimant seeks a Default Judgment before a Defence is filed.

You clearly filed your Defence before PE sought a Default Judgment and it is that point that you need to stress.
The fact that they failed to record the receipt of your Defence really needs to be hammered home.

Have your email sent folder open when you call, so that you can categorically state exactly when you sent your Defence to the CCBCAQ address.

Coupon-mad

I agree.  Had they seen your email and not lost it, you won the race, regardless.  They mucked up.

Redx

also, its not a fine and the CCBC is not a court, its a government office, nothing more

I agree that their tech wizards may not find your stuck email, unlike my experiences today, its probably not a priority, plus if you think about it, they should allow and upload to their system like POPLA do, its a typical tech approach to have uploads instead of paper or emails

lastly, I agree with the above in that its a first past the post system, your email would have predated any judgment by default , I am sure they could check and strike out the judgment and put it to a defended claim, its having the will to put it right thats the key, like in my warranty case today