Elderly man coerced into buying a lower spec vehicle by main dealer

soolin

AdrianC said:

claxtome said:

oh_really said:

Is your FIL lacking capacity?

No he is not. He is nearly 75 though.

That alone does not make the slightest difference at all.

Unless you have PoA over his affairs, the dealer cannot - must not - deal with you about this.

It would be illegal for them to, no matter how well-meaning your intervention is - unless your FiL gives them explicit written permission to.

I cannot comment on the legality of what was signed or not, but I have to comment about the age issue. As an older person myself I am always slightly alarmed by the idea that age somehow makes you need extra help, the OP confirmed FIL has no incapacity yet seems to think he is somehow lacking due to age. Either FIL is unable to function independently anymore -OR - FIL is and has always been slightly naive about finance matters - which would be nothing to do with age.

user1977

soolin said:

AdrianC said:

claxtome said:

oh_really said:

Is your FIL lacking capacity?

No he is not. He is nearly 75 though.

That alone does not make the slightest difference at all.

Unless you have PoA over his affairs, the dealer cannot - must not - deal with you about this.

It would be illegal for them to, no matter how well-meaning your intervention is - unless your FiL gives them explicit written permission to.

I cannot comment on the legality of what was signed or not, but I have to comment about the age issue. As an older person myself I am always slightly alarmed by the idea that age somehow makes you need extra help, the OP confirmed FIL has no incapacity yet seems to think he is somehow lacking due to age. Either FIL is unable to function independently anymore -OR - FIL is and has always been slightly naive about finance matters - which would be nothing to do with age.

I agree with this. 75 is younger than my dad, and I wouldn't consider he is in any more need of other people's help in his dealings with car dealers etc than he ever did.

DrEskimo

Some aspects really need clarifying...

claxtome said:

I was assured that the car was similar in spec to my current one so I completed finance details in order to ensure it would be sold to me if satisfactory.

You wouldn't complete the finance aspect (i.e. the sale) of the car until you had agreed to buy it. You can sign finance documents ahead of time, but they aren't finalised until you actually buy it.

claxtome said:

However, this was prevented as I had effectively purchased the 70 plate car, and the only way of taking my car back would be to complete another agreement but this not only would take in to account any loss on my old vehicle but also the loss on taking the new one off the forecourt.

But this is written like their first ever sighting of the car? They would have driven their car to the dealer for this test drive in anticipation of trading it in and buying the new car had the new car been satisfactory. What is the actual timeline between agreeing in principal and then seeing the car? When did they trade their current car in as P/X?

claxtome said:

As a result, the new agreement now requires £393 per month for 48 months totalling £18864 (ignoring negative equity) whereas my old agreement had only 2 years to go at £408 totalling £9792 approximately.

In other words I am due to pay over £9000 extra for simply keeping my own vehicle – this surely cannot be correct?"

Well yes...if they agreed to P/X their old car for a newer one, it would cost more...Of course the extra £9,000 also accounts for the fact they are driving this car for another 4-years, whereas their original agreement was due to end in 2-years, which would have required paying the final payment, or looking at a new car....

claxtome said:

Surely there should have been a cooling off period?

Yes there is a 14-day cooling off period for the finance, but that would require you finding the money to pay for the car. It doesn't mean you can simply hand the car back after you change your mind. You've agreed to buy the car (with or without finance), so that's why you need to be sure if you actually want it. They should have never agreed to actually buying the car before test driving though. In the first meeting, they can set up finance documents and leave a holding deposit, but it't not until you see it and test drive before you firmly agree to purchase. 

That's what's not clear here...when did that take place, and when did the decide they didn't want it?

jimjames

claxtome said:

This explains the circumstances of what happened to my father in law when he took his Kia car for its first MOT and service in early June; where he was coerced into getting another car which was a lower spec than expected; and then having to sign a new agreement to get his current car back leaving him over £9000 out of pocket:

The way you've written this reads as he went in to get his car serviced and left with a new car. I find it hard to believe that's the case so maybe it would be helpful if you put a timeline of exactly when each step occurred.

Grumpy_chap

jimjames said:

The way you've written this reads as he went in to get his car serviced and left with a new car. 

Maybe it is the old car back, but they did such a good job that it looks and feels like a new car - I have heard about these garages that include a legendary "courtesy valet" but never experienced it.

born_again

claxtome said:

This explains the circumstances of what happened to my father in law when he took his Kia car for its first MOT and service in early June; where he was coerced into getting another car which was a lower spec than expected; and then having to sign a new agreement to get his current car back leaving him over £9000 out of pocket:

"In early June I took my vehicle in to KIA for its first MOT and service as arranged. Whilst this was being actioned, I thought, I was approached by a member of KIA staff asking whether I was interested in updating my vehicle.

Before being approached, I had not considered a change but said I may be interested if the vehicle was of a similar spec to my current vehicle.

The staff member checked my car fully then referred to a tablet showing cars for sale.  She identified one in particular (a 70 plate with 3000 miles) and she would send it down to me.  I was assured that the car was similar in spec to my current one so I completed finance details in order to ensure it would be sold to me if satisfactory.

When the car appeared and I test drove it, the vehicle was in no way acceptable as I detailed many of the features that were lacking in this car compared to mine. Also the mileage was only 2000 so was obviously not the vehicle first discussed.

I expressed my displeasure and said I would not be buying and would take back my car.  However, this was prevented as I had effectively purchased the 70 plate car, and the only way of taking my car back would be to complete another agreement but this not only would take in to account any loss on my old vehicle but also the loss on taking the new one off the forecourt.

As a result, the new agreement now requires £393 per month for 48 months totalling £18864 (ignoring negative equity) whereas my old agreement had only 2 years to go at £408 totalling £9792 approximately.

In other words I am due to pay over £9000 extra for simply keeping my own vehicle – this surely cannot be correct?"

Any suggestions to help my father-in-law are appreciated please.

Surely there should have been a cooling off period?

Kia spec can be strange. You can have a top of the range "4" as they call it, but it has less spec than a "3" in a different model.
So saying "similar spec" could be taken as your have a "3" now, so this car is also a "3" but as it is either a new model, or a different model than it may not have exactly the same features.

If you want certain features, then you have to look at what the car they offered had before agreeing to the purchase.
I was looking at a Ceed PHEV. But asked the question does it have heated seats & steering wheel, as not listed. Got the answer no on the car for sale, but new & other models of the same age do. Deal breaker...

Flight3287462

About 8 years ago my MIL wanted to buy a new car with a budget of about £18k  (she had had a Qashqai and wanted something else.  I set about the job narrowing it down to a couple of suggestions.

Then out of the blue she rocks up with a 6mo demonstrator  Tiguan after paying £26k.  I was seriously miffed as I had put in quite a bit of work but I did take a bit of perverse pleasure pointing out if she had waited a couple of weeks I could have got a brand new for the same price via Drive the Deal.

Hell mend her!

My mother was similar, she would randomly appear with a new car.  "What was wrong with the old one?"

"Oh I fancied a change!"