Private Parking Charge Notice

Dendrak

Hello all

Firstly, I have read the newbie thread and read a lot of other threads of similar issues with the same company, some where the defendant has been successful but all seemingly had to go to court.

To summarise my PCN without giving away too much detail to the companies that scan these forums:

- Car park is in the Sussex area
- Operator is "0ne P@rking S0luti0n" (to avoid appearing in their searches)
- An occupant of the vehicle received an important/distressing phone call and the driver sought to pull over
- The roads in this area of Sussex are double yellows everywhere with nowhere to safely pull over
- The driver pulled into an area and given the nature of the phone call was not paying attention to signs
- The vehicle is pictured driving into the car park . It is not clear from the picture who was driving the vehicle
- The driver stopped the vehicle and the phone call continued, after which the occupants discussed the phone call
- None of the occupants exited the vehicle at any time
- The vehicle is pictured exiting the car park just under 20 minutes later
- I appealed the PCN as the keeper and used the template in the newbie thread to do so
- I added further information stating that the vehicle was not parked (I understand the definition of "parked" is open to interpretation)
- In the appeal I requested photographs of the vehicle being parked (no attendant was seen by the occupants)
- I also requested images of the signage and confirmation of the landowner's grace period (which I understand is a legal minimum of 10 minutes)
- The response to the appeal is probably a standard template that of course provides me with none of the information requested and says the vehicle was not parked in accordance with the T&Cs and that I have not provided sufficient evidence to the contrary.
- I have a POPLA code to use to appeal further but if I appeal via POPLA then the response states I am no longer entitled to the lower rate (60% of the full amount)

What I would like to understand is, given these circumstances, is it worth fighting? My concern is that these things drag on for months, requires an awful lot of time and prep (which I do not really have), time off work to go to court etc and I can see myself further down the track wishing I'd just paid the lower amount just to avoid all the hassle, irrespective of how I feel about fighting it (i.e. I do not believe the vehicle was parked).

I see many similarities with the situation the female found herself in as part of the judgement made here: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6136572/one-parking-solution-warned-by-a-judge-that-they-may-face-an-application-for-a-civil-restraint-order/p1?new=1

Notable differences are that the vehicle was parked for just under 20 minutes (rather than 12 minutes) and that the space the driver pulled into was an off-road piece of land rather than a lay-by immediately off to the side of the road. I have no idea to what extent this makes a difference.

Thank you all in advance for any advice or insight you may have - having read a number of threads now, there is an awful lot of kind and knowledgeable people on these forums!

Umkomaas

All the mitigation is, I'm afraid, irrelevant. 

There are 4 ways to get rid of this:

1. Pay it (no regular here would recommend that). 

2. Ask the landowner to cancel it (the most recommended route - but not guaranteed to succeed). 

3. Successful appeal to POPLA - NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, third post. 

4. Get a Judge to find in your favour - NEWBIES FAQ Announcement, second post.

Sorry, but there's no immediate magic bullet. The more you know, via reading and research here on the forum, the more the prospect of getting rid. 

Coupon-mad

What I would like to understand is, given these circumstances, is it worth fighting?

Nope - sorry - unless the piece of land is unsigned. 

Where exactly?  Why did the person not know about OPS and boycott the place?   IMHO, and according to many many reports, the signs of this pariah of a leach PPC (run by ex-clampers) are as good as a message saying 'cowboy parking enforcement in operation'.

Did the driver not know (why do drivers not know) that they CAN pull over on yellow lines to take a phone call?  As long as you are not causing an obstruction or pull over where there are also yellow kerb blips or a bus lane, you CANNOT get a ticket for stopping on street.
 
WHY DO PEOPLE SEEK OUT PRIVATE LAND? 

YELLOW LINES ARE AN INVITATION TO STOP AND IT'S OK.  YOU CAN LOAD, UNLOAD, ADJUST YOUR SATNAV, TAKE A CALL, PICK UP PASSENGERS, EVEN GET YOUR KIDS FROM SCHOOL AND IT'S EXEMPT, WITHIN REASON, AND NO PARKING TICKETS CAN BE SENT BY SECRET CAMERA EITHER.

So frustrating that people are still falling for this entrapment.

Dendrak

Sorry, my use of "private land" is grossly misleading - it was the Van7age Po1nt car park in Brighton. From reading other posts I think you are well aware of it

I am willing to issue a POPLA appeal but despite reading the newbie thread and all the links within, I am genuinely struggling to search for/find a template that is at least largely relevant to my situation.

The driver was not aware that you could pull over and stay stationary on double yellow lines. Whoops!

The driver pulled into the car park because it was the first "safe" space that to their mind was available to take what was distressing phone call - minds went blank in the moment.

n any case, I'm wondering what would be the strongest arguments to go with (if any) on a POPLA appeal - it sounds like 0PS have historically had issues with landowner's authority which may be unresolved and I do not believe they have any evidence of who the driver was.

Redx

you wont find a template suited to your circumstances, the newbies thread tells you that (especially not mitigation ) , POPLA appeals are bespoke, hence no templates exist, never have

any popla appeal is nearly always based on

NO LANDOWNER AUTHORITY

POOR AND INADEQUATE SIGNAGE

POFA 2012

THE BPA CoP

the CRA 2015

etc

nothing to do with the circumstances

IMHO , no chance of winning, prove me wrong, because if you do it will be on a T K O

ps:- Did 0 p $ comply with POFA ? yes or no ?

IF YES , IT DOESNT MATTER WHO WAS DRIVING !!

Coupon-mad

Drove into Vantage Point - a clear car park site...and didn't just pull over in Ann Street or New England Street?  Oh dear, this is so frustrating...

You are even allowed to stop in a permit or P&D bay to take a call!  Anywhere would be have been OK.   I am sorry but drivers really need to learn what double yellows actually mean. 

You will lose at POPLA then you will be sued. You will have to pay, I am telling you that because you have no grounds for appeal unless you were not driving and the PCN is non-POFA.

IMHO, because of One Parking Solution infesting it, the (grotty and smelly) car park at Vantage Point is as much a no-go car park as the entrapment bays at Eastgate Wharf in Lewes. Stay away.

The landowners of Vantage Point need to wake up and kick OPS out, in my opinion.  They'd get a lot more people using their car park if it wasn't for this aggressive ex-clamper pariah ruining people's lives.

Dendrak

I am not sure that they could prove that I wasn't driving, but the NTK looks like it ticks most if not all of boxes of POFA 2012 para 9 (and I am sure they would make sure that their NTKs cover the requirements) - so it sounds like I'm pretty much screwed

Thanks for your time and input though - certainly stops me wasting a lot of time getting lost down a rabbit hole.

Coupon-mad

 I am sure they would make sure that their NTKs cover the requirements

No, not always.  Most firms have 2 versions, including OPS.

Stay away from grotty, urine infested entrapping car parks like Vantage Point.


PLEASE COME BACK AND STICK AROUND THOUGH! 

WE NEED YOU TO MAKE SOME COMMENTS TO GOVERNMENT, TO CHANGE THINGS FOR THE FUTURE

THE GOVERNMENT WANTS TO REDUCE PARKING CHARGES BY HALF, TO £50 (50% DISCOUNT).

THE PARKING INDUSTRY ISN'T HAPPY, IN FACT THEY THREATENED A JUDICIAL REVIEW.

So, we need to secure the decisions and confirm that real public victims have had enough of this extortion and that the MHCLG's plans are right and fair.  Please do us and yourself (and the driving public) a favour and stick around on this forum every week - at least for the Summer - to ensure you see when the Government publish and open the final Technical Consultation.

We will be talking about it and the public will have about 4 weeks we think, to tell the MHCLG what you think about the level of parking charges, that the MHCLG has admirably decided already will start at £50 (50% discount) and not £100:

Outcome of 2020 Consultation (look what the public comments achieved so far):

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/parking-code-enforcement-framework/outcome/parking-code-enforcement-framework-consultation-response

Planned Summer 2021 additional Public Consultation:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/government-to-open-technical-consultation-on-fairer-parking-charges

It's not open yet but please keep check here to see when it is. 

We need real people like you to counter the spamming that happened last time from the industry.