Served (another) invalid notice?

mrkat

I've been having issues with my landlord who threatened eviction after serving us with an invalid S21 (gave us 2 months instead of 6). I told him that he needed to serve a valid one and he has now served us with a 6A. Does anyone know why he would do this instead of serving an S21? He's now given 4 months notice to Oct 30th, which I thought was correct because since June 1st, the requirement has gone down to 4 months from 6 months, but the form states that 6 months is required which I assume makes it invalid? He has also not provided an EPC, despite someone coming to the house a few weeks ago to obtain one. In the email, he asked us to sign and send back the form confirming we agree to everything but there is no space for signing so not sure why he is asking this. We had to spend money seeking legal advice when he threatened eviction so, if this 6A is invalid like his previous S21, at this stage I'm wondering whether I suggest he do the same. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

HampshireH

It's the same thing this should help you

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/assured-tenancy-forms

He still needs to comply for it to be valid

"This section applies to tenancies which started on or after 1 October 2015

Where the landlord has failed to comply with certain existing legal obligations, the section 21 

possession procedure (for which this form is used to give notice) may not be used. The 

obligations are the requirement on a landlord to provide the tenant with: 

• an Energy Performance Certificate (Reg 6(5), the Energy Performance of Buildings (England 

and Wales) Regulations 2012); and 

• a gas safety certificate (Reg 36(6)(a), the Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998) 

if the property has gas appliances installed"

Presumably you have started looking for alternative housing being that you knew a second one would be coming

If you haven't and intend to sit it out to court (and possibly pay the landlords costs) then why alert him at all?

[Deleted User]

mrkat said:

I've been having issues with my landlord who threatened eviction after serving us with an invalid S21 (gave us 2 months instead of 6). I told him that he needed to serve a valid one and he has now served us with a 6A. Does anyone know why he would do this instead of serving an S21? He's now given 4 months notice to Oct 30th, which I thought was correct because since June 1st, the requirement has gone down to 4 months from 6 months, but the form states that 6 months is required which I assume makes it invalid? He has also not provided an EPC, despite someone coming to the house a few weeks ago to obtain one. In the email, he asked us to sign and send back the form confirming we agree to everything but there is no space for signing so not sure why he is asking this. We had to spend money seeking legal advice when he threatened eviction so, if this 6A is invalid like his previous S21, at this stage I'm wondering whether I suggest he do the same. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

From your previous thread on the subject it seems like yo7 need to buy as much time as possible in the property due to having dogs which makes finding another rental difficult so I have no idea why you told your landlord the first Section 21 was invalid nor why you’d want to tell him the new Section 21 is invalid either. 

You did not have to spend money seeking legal advice. Shelter would have given you advice for free and you were directed to the Section 21 checker tool in your previous thread which I’m linking to again below. 

https://markprichard.co.uk/content/documents/180408-Section-21-checker-tool.pdf

Ultimately what it it you wan5 to achieve here? To give yourself as much time as possible to find a new rental or to help your landlord get the Section 21 correct so he can get you out sooner? 

mrkat

Thanks for the replies We don't intend to sit it out to court but I would like as much time as possible to find suitable accommodation. Before we knew the first s21 was invalid, we were in a panic and considered horrible places just to have somewhere to live, now that panic has eased and we're looking for somewhere more appropriate but it is still very difficult.

The LL has passed us onto his son now (due to ill health) who is dealing with everything and he is being very nice but we won't get caught in the same problem and want to do everything as officially as possible.

Just not sure how to reply now, when he's asked us to sign the invalid form. 

[Deleted User]

mrkat said:

Thanks for the replies We don't intend to sit it out to court but I would like as much time as possible to find suitable accommodation. Before we knew the first s21 was invalid, we were in a panic and considered horrible places just to have somewhere to live, now that panic has eased and we're looking for somewhere more appropriate but it is still very difficult.

The LL has passed us onto his son now (due to ill health) who is dealing with everything and he is being very nice but we won't get caught in the same problem and want to do everything as officially as possible.

Just not sure how to reply now, when he's asked us to sign the invalid form. 

So what if he’s asked you to sign an invalid Section 21. That won’t suddenly make it valid. 

HampshireH

I'm not sure why you need to sign the notice.


They arent designed to be signed by the recipient. 

There is nothing for you to agree. You can agree you received it but that's all

Just ignore it if it's invalid

mrkat

Ok thanks. I was wondering whether getting us to sign it would imply we agree to the 4 months notice given on the 6A but if that's not the case, then I'll ignore the request.

GDB2222

It seems to me that you have an obvious strategy here:

1. Start looking for somewhere else to live. Rental properties tend to come on the market only a few weeks before they are due to become vacant. Four months will give you a reasonable amount of time.  Are you really going to find anywhere if you have a bit longer? Or, are you just postponing the evil day?

2. If you don't find anywhere in the four months, just sit tight. The backlogs in the legal system are so big that it will take months for a court date to be set. You do make yourself potentially liable for some of the landlord's costs.

3. Explain your position to the landlord. You might find somewhere during the four months and want to move at short notice. Get his agreement in advance, in writing. Similarly, at the end of the 4 months, he may not start proceedings immediately if he can see you are looking.

Bear in mind that you are going to need a LL reference.

mrkat

We're hoping to find somewhere within the 4 months but it would be good to have any extra time as backup. We didn't imagine how tough the rental market had become, especially finding somewhere that will allow dogs, and the rentals we've seen for similar places are around 30% higher now.

It's my understanding that we need to give him 1 month's notice as our contract expired in May and, because his S21 from March was invalid, we automatically went onto a rolling contract after that. 

I don't think he can start legal proceedings after the 4 months because the 6A he's issued says on the notes that the form would not apply without an EPC and it needs to give 6 months. That's the part that I'm confused by as I thought that since June 1st, it was 4 months. 

GDB2222

The fact that he's used an old version of the form saying 6 months is irrelevant. The notice period now is 4 months. If it ever gets to court, the validity of the form will be something for the judge to decide, and the EPC may come into it. 

Frankly, it will take a year or more to get to court, and if you have not found anywhere in that time you have a big problem.

If market rentals are higher than you are currently paying, that's also a problem. The LL can raise the rent even though he has served a S21. If you have trouble paying the higher rent, you may be able to get help. can i ask whether you are receiving any benefits? If so, it's possible that any rent increase will be covered 100%.