Penalised for ever for one mistake!

leehutch999

I took out car insurance for my 19 year old son and despite having to use a “black box” the cost was astronomical which I know a lot of households face. Many months in to the policy he did something which he recognises as stupid and exceeded the speed limit. This was picked up by the box itself and the Police weren’t involved. We were all young once and did some silly things. Anyway the insurance broker (flux direct) contacted us and said the underwriters had cancelled the policy and he’d have to find another company. This was arbitrary and we weren’t given the chance to explain what had happened. They found another company and the cost went up yet again! Flux Direct did say that at the next renewal if we stayed with them the “offence” would be considered spent and we wouldn’t have to declare it. They lied and that wasn’t the case. 

This is the crux of my complaint. Whenever he looks to take out a policy one of the questions is “have you ever had insurance cancelled, declined or void etc”. We’re honest people and when we say yes the number of companies willing to quote are reduced dramatically and prices are ridiculous. Furthermore, when I look to renew my home insurance cover one of the questions is “has anyone in your household  ever had insurance declined, cancelled etc. Again when I say yes we are heavily penalised.  

It appears that this will continue forever and a day which I feel is harsh. Surely after a certain time the matter shouldn’t have to be declared as in criminal convictions. Wondering if anyone has faced a similar situation, can give advice and tell us who is the best person(s) to take the matter to?

tacpot12

I think you should contact the Association of British Insurers. I do think you make a good point that from one mistake there seems to be no way back, ever. This does seem unfair. I think that the industry should be encouraged to make some change. In cases where there was no fraud, I think there should be a short time period of say 6 to 10 years where the fact needs to be declared. Perhaps cases involving fraud should have a longer period, say 12 years, where the fact needs to be declared, but after this, it is considered 'spent'.   

I would also suggest that you contact your MP and start a petition to Parliament, because if the industry will not willingly change, then the change needs to be forced on them. Not being able to get insurance, or only at penal rates, affects people badly. They may not be able to get work if they cannot drive, because they cannot get cost effective insurance. The poor are more likely to be affected than the rich.  

I think your story will (and should) put anyone off having a "black box" fitted to their car. It might  lower the premiums initially, but if the  box picks up enough poor driving to the point where the policy is cancelled, then all future premiums are going to be  penal and it will not have been worth it. 

Good luck. 

Sandtree

The impact on your home insurance will be limited until when your son move out.

Have you looked at the original policybook to see if it was grounds for cancellation? Did you register a complaint about the cancellation? How material was the speeding, 33 in a 30 or 102 in a 40?

Until the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act criminals were tarred with the brush of their past for life, the law changed it such that only "serious" crimes are for life and minor offences expire after a period. Unfortunately no such law exists for breach of insurance terms etc leading to cancelation and so insurers are free to ask about whatever period they want. 

Aretnap

Last time I checked Direct Line and its various brands (Churchill, Privilege) only asked if you have had insurance cancelled in the last 5 years, for car insurance at least. Not much help right now perhaps, but with keeping in mind in future. 

rudekid48

tacpot12 said:

I think your story will (and should) put anyone off having a "black box" fitted to their car. It might  lower the premiums initially, but if the  box picks up enough poor driving to the point where the policy is cancelled, then all future premiums are going to be  penal and it will not have been worth it. 

Good luck. 

Ah yes, because someone having to pay higher premiums is far more important than the impact that their "poor driving" can have on others.  The OP has not shared details of the "exceeding the speed limit" and I would be very surprised if it was a minor breach.  For the insurer to cancel the policy immediately, without any prior warnings then the speed will have been significant, or they had already issued warnings for persistent speeding.  I do have sympathy for the OP as they did not cause the issue - their son did - but personally I'm glad that dangerous driving/speeding has consequences - it can certainly have much greater consequences for other innocent road users than more expensive insurance.

dunstonh

Anyway the insurance broker (flux direct) contacted us and said the underwriters had cancelled the policy and he’d have to find another company. 

Normally, they only void the policy in extreme cases.  i.e. significantly exceeding the speed limit.  Not just a little.

They found another company and the cost went up yet again! Flux Direct did say that at the next renewal if we stayed with them the “offence” would be considered spent and we wouldn’t have to declare it. They lied and that wasn’t the case. 

It isn't an offence and it is not up to one insurance company to decide how others would treat it.  As it happens, it was a lie anyway.

Whenever he looks to take out a policy one of the questions is “have you ever had insurance cancelled, declined or void etc”. We’re honest people and when we say yes the number of companies willing to quote are reduced dramatically and prices are ridiculous.

Comparison sites cherry pick.  They want easy uncomplicated cases.  Your son needs to look at brokers instead.

It appears that this will continue forever and a day which I feel is harsh. Surely after a certain time the matter shouldn’t have to be declared as in criminal convictions. Wondering if anyone has faced a similar situation, can give advice and tell us who is the best person(s) to take the matter to?

Your MP is really the only choice.   As it stands the insurers can ask that question as it is and can offer the terms they wish because of it.  Only a change in the law can change it.   You could ask the FCA, who also have the power to impose rules without a law change but they are not at all helpful to consumers. 

tacpot12

rudekid48 said:

tacpot12 said:

I think your story will (and should) put anyone off having a "black box" fitted to their car. It might  lower the premiums initially, but if the  box picks up enough poor driving to the point where the policy is cancelled, then all future premiums are going to be  penal and it will not have been worth it. 

Good luck. 

Ah yes, because someone having to pay higher premiums is far more important than the impact that their "poor driving" can have on others.  The OP has not shared details of the "exceeding the speed limit" and I would be very surprised if it was a minor breach.  For the insurer to cancel the policy immediately, without any prior warnings then the speed will have been significant, or they had already issued warnings for persistent speeding.  I do have sympathy for the OP as they did not cause the issue - their son did - but personally I'm glad that dangerous driving/speeding has consequences - it can certainly have much greater consequences for other innocent road users than more expensive insurance.

I agree with rudekid48 in that there should be consequences, but the OP's point was about the never-ending nature of the penalty. If there is no way back, no possibility of redemption, then there is also no reward for improving and learning.

leehutch999

Thanks tacpot12. You’re absolutely right in that my issue is how long we I (we) are expected to be “punished”. As an emergency worker for 36 years I don’t need lecturing about the consequences of speeding as I see it on a daily basis. I certainly don’t condone what he did and he’s learnt from his mistake. We’ve all done things that we shouldn’t have, (especially in our youth), have to accept the punishment and move on. This I feel however is different. I’ll take the advice and contact the Association of British Insurers and my local MP. If ever anything changes in the future it will be too late for my situation but may benefit others.

rudekid48

leehutch999 said:

Thanks tacpot12. You’re absolutely right in that my issue is how long we I (we) are expected to be “punished”. As an emergency worker for 36 years I don’t need lecturing about the consequences of speeding as I see it on a daily basis. I certainly don’t condone what he did and he’s learnt from his mistake. We’ve all done things that we shouldn’t have, (especially in our youth), have to accept the punishment and move on. This I feel however is different. I’ll take the advice and contact the Association of British Insurers and my local MP. If ever anything changes in the future it will be too late for my situation but may benefit others.

I wasn't lecturing you - I was responding to tacpot12's point about black box policies in general and why I disagree with their point. 

I also said I have every sympathy for your situation, especially with your home insurance as the issue is not of your making. 

My point does stand though - this must have been an extreme speed (happy to be corrected if I'm wrong) and not just youthful exuberance which as you quite rightly say, we have all done.  As you also correctly point out, as an emergency worker of 36 years you understand the potential consequences of extreme speed better than most and so whilst I agree that a time-bound cap on declaring a cancelled policy would be fairer, a financial punishment has to be more palatable than the more serious life-changing outcomes that extreme speeding can result in. 

You'll be wasting your time contacting the ABI - you may get a polite, sympathetic response but they have no power to impose change, they can issue guidelines but compliance is voluntary.  Your MP is a better starting point as only the FCA can impose this kind of change (the other option of an EU directive similar to the gender ruling for insurance is no longer available), but as Dunstonh says, they are not very consumer friendly. 

Not every insurer will blindly impose a penalty for a cancelled policy - particularly if it wasn't cancelled for any suspected fraud - so a good Broker should also be able to help you out.

csgohan4

OP, I would also teach your son how to buy car insurance, the sooner they do, the sooner they also realize it isn't as easy/cheap when they have a record on file. 

OP how much over the speed limit was he? It must be large to warrant cancellation, unless it was in the T+C

Your stressing out trying to contact people, while he's not putting any legwork in nor realizing the other admin side to owning a car

The only exception is elderly parents which I handle their affairs for them for obvious reasons