Buying new house - Garage conversion and Roof Terrace not signed off to Building Regs UK England

andy_hiams

Hello. We are buying a property at a cut price in the knowledge it is a bit of a project. There is a double garage (5.5m x 6m) converted sub standard to an annex. Building control have assessed and presented us with the attached list of remediation work/investigations. The stumbling blocks are the investigations, unknown quantities that 3,4,5 and 7 on the attached. Whilst we knew the garage conversion was shoddy we were not aware that the roof terrace itself was not signed off. It was redone in 2012 with steel beams and new joists and my gut feeling is that it has been done to a reasonable standard. However, until it is checked out we don't know what kind of costs may be involved. 

So I have a number of questions.

1. We have told our mortgage provider we will get this work done, is there a time limit? Will building control come knocking or will hey wait indefinitely until we invite them to inspect. They have been out to confirm what needs doing earlier this month.
2. Is it reasonable to delay moving until we have had various professionals out to assess these unknown (cost wise) rectification works? That may require a some limited "damage" to uncover the roof structure which we would hope the vendor would be ok with. 
3. When it comes to getting this work done, how does it work. Are there stages of work that need signing off along the way. Will whoever we employ to do the work be aware and work in tandem with building control?
4. What kind of budget would you expect is required here, UK Northamptonshire. We have a figure in mind for the bits we do know about but we only have a certain budget which is less now we have missed the stamp duty holiday. 

andy_hiams

Apologies I should clarify the roof terrace is above the garage and has been since the property was built.

user1977

andy_hiams said:

We have told our mortgage provider we will get this work done, is there a time limit? Will building control come knocking or will hey wait indefinitely until we invite them to inspect.

A time limit imposed by your lenders? We don't know, what's been their response so far?

I wouldn't expect building control to be interested except to the extent you actually want them to sign things off, they don't proactively go around enforcing things unless there's actually a danger to the public.

eddddy

Building control can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so if it was done in 2012, that opportunity has passed.

Who involved building control? That will have scuppered your chances of getting indemnity insurance, and therefore made getting a mortgage much more difficult.


Why have you involved your mortgage lender?  Did their valuer raise this as an issue? Often a cheap indemnity insurance policy would have kept the lender happy.


In your position, I would have handled this differently. I would have instructed a surveyor to look at it and to give an estimate of the cost of the rectification work. (Surveyors almost always quote high.)


If the surveyor said, say, £20k for the work - I would have decided whether I need to adjust my offer on that basis.  Then start on the work after buying the property.

andy_hiams

user1977 said:

andy_hiams said:

We have told our mortgage provider we will get this work done, is there a time limit? Will building control come knocking or will hey wait indefinitely until we invite them to inspect.

A time limit imposed by your lenders? We don't know, what's been their response so far?

I wouldn't expect building control to be interested except to the extent you actually want them to sign things off, they don't proactively go around enforcing things unless there's actually a danger to the public.

Perfect I didn't expect they would force the issue at all. Obviously its in our interest to get it done and to standard asap but at least there is some breathing space.

andy_hiams

eddddy said:

Building control can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so if it was done in 2012, that opportunity has passed.

Who involved building control? That will have scuppered your chances of getting indemnity insurance, and therefore made getting a mortgage much more difficult.


Why have you involved your mortgage lender?  Did their valuer raise this as an issue? Often a cheap indemnity insurance policy would have kept the lender happy.


In your position, I would have handled this differently. I would have instructed a surveyor to look at it and to give an estimate of the cost of the rectification work. (Surveyors almost always quote high.)


If the surveyor said, say, £20k for the work - I would have decided whether I need to adjust my offer on that basis.  Then start on the work after buying the property.

Out solicitor advised getting BC to view. They have advised our Lender who seem to be ok with it as long as it complies with some handbook guidance. That's not really an issue as far as i know. 

In terms of my question, I guess a surveyor would be useful. We did have a surveyor out who noted some of these issues but without removing ceilings etc to view the beams and pillars it will be impossible for them to quote i am guessing? That is a route we can still go down I imagine.  

eddddy

If appropriate, a surveyor and/or structural engineer should be able to give you a number of scenarios...

For example,

If new steel steel beams are required - the cost is likely to be £x
If the existing steel beams are adequate - the cost is likely to be £y


They might also be able to indicate how likely each scenario is - e.g. how likely it is that new steel beams will be required.

You'd probably need to instruct a specialist buildings surveyor (and structural engineer) for this - possibly not the type of surveyor who does regular surveys for home buyers.

ucl1986

andy_hiams said:

eddddy said:

Building control can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so if it was done in 2012, that opportunity has passed.

Who involved building control? That will have scuppered your chances of getting indemnity insurance, and therefore made getting a mortgage much more difficult.


Why have you involved your mortgage lender?  Did their valuer raise this as an issue? Often a cheap indemnity insurance policy would have kept the lender happy.


In your position, I would have handled this differently. I would have instructed a surveyor to look at it and to give an estimate of the cost of the rectification work. (Surveyors almost always quote high.)


If the surveyor said, say, £20k for the work - I would have decided whether I need to adjust my offer on that basis.  Then start on the work after buying the property.

Out solicitor advised getting BC to view. They have advised our Lender who seem to be ok with it as long as it complies with some handbook guidance. That's not really an issue as far as i know. 

In terms of my question, I guess a surveyor would be useful. We did have a surveyor out who noted some of these issues but without removing ceilings etc to view the beams and pillars it will be impossible for them to quote i am guessing? That is a route we can still go down I imagine.  

Strange that the solicitor would advise this since it invalidates the indemnity. The work is nearly 10 years old so it obviously will not comply with today's BC standards. 

A surveyor won't be able to assess whether it's structurally sound without an invasive inspection. You would need a structural engineer to do an invasive inspection, with the vendor's permission. 

Section62

ucl1986 said:

Strange that the solicitor would advise this since it invalidates the indemnity.

I think there is a point at which a competent solicitor shouldn't be recommending a (potentially useless) bit of paper, but instead advising the client to seek professional advice about the safety of the structure they are buying.

Sometimes folks get too focused on the 'getting away with it', and overlook the more important issue (from the buyer's perspective) as to whether there is a risk of the building killing them and/or their family due to the shortcuts someone else has taken.

We don't know whether or not that is the case here, but for a roof terrace built on a shoddily converted garage I would give the solicitor the benefit of the doubt and say they have likely done the right thing.

Thrugelmir

ucl1986 said:

andy_hiams said:

eddddy said:

Building control can only take enforcement action within 12 months of the work being done - so if it was done in 2012, that opportunity has passed.

Who involved building control? That will have scuppered your chances of getting indemnity insurance, and therefore made getting a mortgage much more difficult.


Why have you involved your mortgage lender?  Did their valuer raise this as an issue? Often a cheap indemnity insurance policy would have kept the lender happy.


In your position, I would have handled this differently. I would have instructed a surveyor to look at it and to give an estimate of the cost of the rectification work. (Surveyors almost always quote high.)


If the surveyor said, say, £20k for the work - I would have decided whether I need to adjust my offer on that basis.  Then start on the work after buying the property.

Out solicitor advised getting BC to view. They have advised our Lender who seem to be ok with it as long as it complies with some handbook guidance. That's not really an issue as far as i know. 

In terms of my question, I guess a surveyor would be useful. We did have a surveyor out who noted some of these issues but without removing ceilings etc to view the beams and pillars it will be impossible for them to quote i am guessing? That is a route we can still go down I imagine.  

Strange that the solicitor would advise this since it invalidates the indemnity. The work is nearly 10 years old so it obviously will not comply with today's BC standards. 

The quality of the build sounds shocking. Standards were improved a lot longer than 10 years ago. Might as well start again. 

BikingBud

So it's not a new house!
How much is the discount, is it enough to rebuild the garage to required standards?
Are there other issues with the house that are also covered by the gross reduction?
What's your exposure for safety and rebuild costs?

If in the potential worst case scenario you are endangering your family and visitors then a seek funds (reduction) for a full rebuild.
If it's just reduction in value with no safety impact then you my wish to settle for a smaller reduction.
Personally unless there were some compelling benefits sweetened by a reduce price I would probably leave it and look elsewhere.