Resigning under investigation for gross misconduct

Undervalued

Sandtree said:

naedanger said:

Sandtree said:

Undervalued said:
"Stolen" legally require the intent to permanently deprive. Did you not get the phone back? If not have you reported it to the police?

So if persons unknown take your car and then abandon it a few miles away after hitting some parked cars and you then go collect it from the police selected recovery yard then your car hasnt been stolen?

Yes, it's not been stolen. It has been "taken without consent" which is a different offence (that applies to conveyances but not phones as far as I am aware). 

https://www.burtoncopeland.com/news/twoc-and-vehicle-theft-burton-copeland-explain-difference/

I think "taken without consent" became an offence because joy riders couldn't be successfully prosecuted for theft since they didn't have intent to permanently deprive the owner of the car.

Interesting... though according to that article it comes down to intent not the practice... so if they had intended not to return it then its theft even if it is subsequently returned

Yes, I think so. Although not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

TBagpuss

Undervalued said:

Sandtree said:

naedanger said:

Sandtree said:

Undervalued said:
"Stolen" legally require the intent to permanently deprive. Did you not get the phone back? If not have you reported it to the police?

So if persons unknown take your car and then abandon it a few miles away after hitting some parked cars and you then go collect it from the police selected recovery yard then your car hasnt been stolen?

Yes, it's not been stolen. It has been "taken without consent" which is a different offence (that applies to conveyances but not phones as far as I am aware). 

https://www.burtoncopeland.com/news/twoc-and-vehicle-theft-burton-copeland-explain-difference/

I think "taken without consent" became an offence because joy riders couldn't be successfully prosecuted for theft since they didn't have intent to permanently deprive the owner of the car.

Interesting... though according to that article it comes down to intent not the practice... so if they had intended not to return it then its theft even if it is subsequently returned

Yes, I think so. Although not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.

Virtually all criminal offences require 'intent' of some kind.

But mostly it is inferred from what you do and say, you can't just say that you didn't intend something and have them say "Fine then, off you go" 
If you are caught with the big bag marked 'swag' as you creep out of someone else's home , then it will be inferred from your actions that you intended to keep their silverware, even if you say you were jut borrowing it or taking it to get some fresh air. 

Brie

What do you expect to be the outcome of the investigation? 

Hopefully you will be exonerated which would be great.  I suspect however you will not get off completely as there will at least be a note on your personnel file regarding the threat you made - even if it also notes that it was under stress.

And what about the others?  Chances are they will also just get a note on their files.  And then you'll all be back together expected to work as if nothing ever happened.  To me this would mean a very poisonous environment.

If it was me and I had a new job lined up I would talk to my manager, explain my thoughts and feelings and ask that the investigation into the others behaviour continue to e investigated but state that you need to leave for your own well being.

TBagpuss

GeordieGeorge said:

juraj.kecso said:

If you resign, that's it. Most companies just stop the investigation against the employee as they no longer work for them. However, you must resign with immediate effect and forget about notice pay. If you have another job to go into, why wait for potentially being dismissed for GM (and that being on your future reference instead of resignation)?

That’s not right at all. The investigation can continue and the outcome can be mentioned in a reference, as can “resigned while under investigation for gross misconduct.”

You can’t simply resign “effective immediately” either if your contract requires you to give notice.

Yes, the investigation *can* continue and the employer *can* say in a reference that the worker resigned while under investigation.

But Juraj.kecso is also correct that many, if not most, employers would stop an investigation in those circumstances as there's not point in them spending time and resources determining whether or not someone who is no longer an employee, was guilty of misconduct - this will depend of course on their own internal policies and probably also on the nature of the misconduct - some things might be serious enough that they would need or want to make a report to outside agencies and/or to proceed to further internal investigations. I would imagine that they might also wish to continue with the process in case the employee tried to claim constructive dismissal. I am sure there are other reasons they might go on.

Awdio

I had a meeting with the investigating manager today who has agreed to accept my immediate resignation and also agreed that this won't affect my reference in any way. I do get the impression that he thinks I was the victim as he has given me a 7 day cooling off period to retract my resignation. Is this normal in a case of gross misconduct?

I did ask about what will happen to the other 3 but he refused to comment. Now I've resigned, mainly due to what happened. Will they still proceed with disciplinary action against the other 3? They are bullies and I don't want anyone to go through the torment I have went through.

Undervalued

Awdio said:

I had a meeting with the investigating manager today who has agreed to accept my immediate resignation and also agreed that this won't affect my reference in any way. I do get the impression that he thinks I was the victim as he has given me a 7 day cooling off period to retract my resignation. Is this normal in a case of gross misconduct?

I did ask about what will happen to the other 3 but he refused to comment. Now I've resigned, mainly due to what happened. Will they still proceed with disciplinary action against the other 3? They are bullies and I don't want anyone to go through the torment I have went through.

He was right to do so. You have no right to that information. You can make a complaint but it is up to the firm how they deal with it. If they work in a regulated occupation you could also complain to their professional body but that seems unlikely. If they have broken the law then you could report it to the police.

eamon

My take. You are being bulllied by work colleagues and bit back. Nothing per se wrong with that as it is a normal human reaction. Without knowing your work place I think that resigning is a hasty move. Suspension is meant to be a neutral act and is designed to get you out of the environment to allow the investigation to happen. Retract your resignation tomorrow, you are still getting paid etc. Let the investigation run its course, your never know it may go in your favour and your tormentors are terminated. Worst case scenario is that the investigation decides not in your favour and leads to you being disciplined thats when you can decide if your future lies elsewhere. Are you in trade union? If yes speak to them.

General_Grant

Awdio said:

I had a meeting with the investigating manager today who has agreed to accept my immediate resignation and also agreed that this won't affect my reference in any way. I do get the impression that he thinks I was the victim as he has given me a 7 day cooling off period to retract my resignation. Is this normal in a case of gross misconduct?

I did ask about what will happen to the other 3 but he refused to comment. Now I've resigned, mainly due to what happened. Will they still proceed with disciplinary action against the other 3? They are bullies and I don't want anyone to go through the torment I have went through.

If you don't retract your resignation, then get them to give you in writing what they would say in response to a reference request so that is on your file for the future.

Was your resignation in writing?  Particularly if it wasn't, then it is probably not uncommon for an employer to give an employee a chance to reconsider an action that may have been in haste and which could be regretted.  

Awdio

General_Grant said:

Awdio said:

I had a meeting with the investigating manager today who has agreed to accept my immediate resignation and also agreed that this won't affect my reference in any way. I do get the impression that he thinks I was the victim as he has given me a 7 day cooling off period to retract my resignation. Is this normal in a case of gross misconduct?

I did ask about what will happen to the other 3 but he refused to comment. Now I've resigned, mainly due to what happened. Will they still proceed with disciplinary action against the other 3? They are bullies and I don't want anyone to go through the torment I have went through.

If you don't retract your resignation, then get them to give you in writing what they would say in response to a reference request so that is on your file for the future.

Was your resignation in writing?  Particularly if it wasn't, then it is probably not uncommon for an employer to give an employee a chance to reconsider an action that may have been in haste and which could be regretted.  

It was a handwritten letter. In the resignation letter I wrote that we have agreed on a good reference and this won’t affect it. I’m guessing by including that they can’t give me a bad reference?

oh_really

Awdio said:

It was a handwritten letter. In the resignation letter I wrote that we have agreed on a good reference and this won’t affect it. I’m guessing by including that they can’t give me a bad reference?

They can provide a factual reference.

You have been thrown a potential lifeline with the offer to rescind your resignation, take it.