Neighbour stole loft space for conversion

Money_Grabber13579

Presumably your house isn’t square i.e. it’s a bit like some hotel rooms where there are two rooms (houses) joined together and then a strip in between where one house has the space at the front for the bathroom and the other house has the space at the back for their bathroom? Hence the misaligned walls in the loft? If so, that would suggest that half of that structure is over your property, which is far from ideal…

DebtFreeDuo

theoretica said:

I think it has been asked but not answered - what do the deeds show?  A straight line separating the terraced properties?  Or a stepped one?

I haven't seen the deeds yet but I believe it will be a stepped one going from the floor below.

DebtFreeDuo

/*Money_Grabber13579 said:

Presumably your house isn’t square i.e. it’s a bit like some hotel rooms where there are two rooms (houses) joined together and then a strip in between where one house has the space at the front for the bathroom and the other house has the space at the back for their bathroom? Hence the misaligned walls in the loft? If so, that would suggest that half of that structure is over your property, which is far from ideal…

Yes this is exactly what I think, I'm not the best at putting things into words! From how I have looked at it, the divide appears to be the half way point but I haven't measured exactly how far it comes over yet as I haven't been back to the house since these photos. I just wanted to get an idea of the next steps and whether it would be a huge problem before I suggested any next steps to my parents.

Jeepers_Creepers

This is not a straight row of terraced houses, then? But - what? - each house is partially stepped back from its neighbour? Or it's a crescent or on a bend?

What can we actually say about this situation? I think it's that the remaining sections of brick wall are surely original, and do represent the boundary between the houses;  the walls on the ground floor and upstairs will almost certainly match these?

And, we don't know yet what was in the middle wall section which appears to have been removed to make way for the monstros. The deeds should hopefully show this wall as it should be. DFD, through no fault of their own - they can't just pop in there any time - hasn't yet been able to provide some of this basic info, but will surely do so when they can

DFD, could you have an overall look at the terrace too, and see where chimney stacks - if there were/are any - are positioned. I wonder if the shared stack was removed, and the neighb thought 'I know how I can use that space...'?

DebtFreeDuo

Jeepers_Creepers said:

This is not a straight row of terraced houses, then? But - what? - each house is partially stepped back from its neighbour? Or it's a crescent or on a bend?

What can we actually say about this situation? I think it's that the remaining sections of brick wall are surely original, and do represent the boundary between the houses;  the walls on the ground floor and upstairs will almost certainly match these?

And, we don't know yet what was in the middle wall section which appears to have been removed to make way for the monstros. The deeds should hopefully show this wall as it should be. DFD, through no fault of their own - they can't just pop in there any time - hasn't yet been able to provide some of this basic info, but will surely do so when they can

DFD, could you have an overall look at the terrace too, and see where chimney stacks - if there were/are any - are positioned. I wonder if the shared stack was removed, and the neighb thought 'I know how I can use that space...'?

It is a row of terraced houses, it is just that wall between the 2 houses on that side that is stepped, the other side is a straight wall. I have managed to get this image from google, we are talking about the house with the blue door, so the window on the left is for the bathroom which is where it is stepped above the entrance to the back gates. The walls below do appear to match the walls you can see in the loft space, The ground floor is straight because of the walkway to the back gate.

Alter_ego

Does the chimney breast still exist  inside the house?

MovingForwards

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-register

Have you obtained copies of both title deeds and plans?

DebtFreeDuo

MovingForwards said:

https://www.gov.uk/get-information-about-property-and-land/search-the-register

Have you obtained copies of both title deeds and plans?

Not yet, the deeds are with the solicitor I believe. 

Jeepers_Creepers

Mysterier and mysterier. (double sic).

You are saying that the house concerned is the one between these two red vertical lines? And that the bathroom indicated by the white arrow is 'yours'? And that the encroachment in the loft is above this?

As asked above, does that chimney stack directly above still exist? Are there any changes to the LH house's roofline, or have veluxes or skylights been added? Ie - are there any signs that the loft in the that LH house has been 'converted'?

Is it possible to even do this within the confines of the roof - is it tall enough?!

That LH house is the end-of-terrace property, yes?

Right, still trying to get my head around this 'stepped' feature... Is it a case of - 'your' house's bathroom, which is at the front and has that window (arrowed white) goes over the alleyway, but only to half the alleyway's depth? So beyond half-way down that alley, it becomes the neighb's upstairs space - ie they could have an equivalent, matching, bathroom there, but with a window facing out the rear?

So it really is stepped?!

Ok, I think this is what I would do, if I wasn't moving in to that house myself. I would get a builder/joiner/handypeep in and ask them to board that entire end wall, following the current shape - ie, it would step at some point. As before, this would be as simple as D&Ding on to the bricks (with perhaps some light studwork above to take it to the roofline), and screwed directly into the visible studwork of the monstros. And leave it at that. That's a loft, suitable for storage only. It matters very little. You have done nothing wrong.

Sell the house.

If some highly perceptive surveyor figures out the step is not where they expected - ie begins a bit more to the front than they expected - then you just shrug and say you had it lined/boarded to tidy it up, that's all. Chances are they won't notice.

I'm imaging that the neighb has nothing up there other than loft storage - not a living space, surely? But if they ever do anything that causes an issue such as a water leak or whatevs, then they are 100% liable, and any boundary misdemeanour by them will come to light, and their insurance co might well have some stern words for them. But it shouldn't be a problem at all to the new owner of 'your' place.

DebtFreeDuo

Jeepers_Creepers said:

Mysterier and mysterier. (double sic).

You are saying that the house concerned is the one between these two red vertical lines? And that the bathroom indicated by the white arrow is 'yours'? And that the encroachment in the loft is above this? 

Yes

As asked above, does that chimney stack directly above still exist? Are there any changes to the LH house's roofline, or have veluxes or skylights been added? Ie - are there any signs that the loft in the that LH house has been 'converted'?

Is it possible to even do this within the confines of the roof - is it tall enough?!

There is a skylight on the rear which I can try to get a picture of the next time I am there. I think this is still how it looks now regarding the chimney but I can check this again when I'm next at the property, I don't believe there is a chimney stack within our property. The property next door (end terraced) has had a lot of work done.

That LH house is the end-of-terrace property, yes?

Right, still trying to get my head around this 'stepped' feature... Is it a case of - 'your' house's bathroom, which is at the front and has that window (arrowed white) goes over the alleyway, but only to half the alleyway's depth? So beyond half-way down that alley, it becomes the neighb's upstairs space - ie they could have an equivalent, matching, bathroom there, but with a window facing out the rear?

So it really is stepped?!

Yes that's right

Ok, I think this is what I would do, if I wasn't moving in to that house myself. I would get a builder/joiner/handypeep in and ask them to board that entire end wall, following the current shape - ie, it would step at some point. As before, this would be as simple as D&Ding on to the bricks (with perhaps some light studwork above to take it to the roofline), and screwed directly into the visible studwork of the monstros. And leave it at that. That's a loft, suitable for storage only. It matters very little. You have done nothing wrong.

Sell the house.

If some highly perceptive surveyor figures out the step is not where they expected - ie begins a bit more to the front than they expected - then you just shrug and say you had it lined/boarded to tidy it up, that's all. Chances are they won't notice.

I'm imaging that the neighb has nothing up there other than loft storage - not a living space, surely? But if they ever do anything that causes an issue such as a water leak or whatevs, then they are 100% liable, and any boundary misdemeanour by them will come to light, and their insurance co might well have some stern words for them. But it shouldn't be a problem at all to the new owner of 'your' place.

Thank you for all of your help so far, I will pass this onto my parents. We had an estate agent come around to get an idea on value and whether it was worth doing the house up before selling, the house hasn't been decorated in at least 10 yeas and needs new kitchen and bathroom. She suggested to sell as is as it will likely sell better to someone looking for a rental. She also said to make sure that everything was in order and probate was at least started as the delays could put off potential buyers which is why we are a little concerned over this causing a possible delay and then losing a buyer.