'Deep' patio needs a lot of hardcore/sub-base...

boxa

Alter_ego said:

The side wall in your photo doesn't look up to the job

I'm really grateful of the input so far and appreciate I have a bit of a job on my hands, but do you mind if I ask you to elaborate a bit.
Thanks.

Alter_ego

boxa said:

Alter_ego said:

The side wall in your photo doesn't look up to the job

I'm really grateful of the input so far and appreciate I have a bit of a job on my hands, but do you mind if I ask you to elaborate a bit.
Thanks

First photo, wall on the left (neighbour's?) Seems to be single skin with fence panel on top?

stuart45

boxa said:

Thanks again Stuart, I obviously have a lot of head scratching to do but know that with a meticulous plan I can do it, so thanks to all those that have offered advice/support so far.
More concerns now though...
The house (and therefore I assume the steps that used to go down into the garden) have been there since the 1930's.
The fella that built the wall has built both walls (the stone and concrete block wall) onto the existing steps which went down into the garden. I am now a bit worried about the foundations (as he didn't put any new ones in, apart from where the soil is) upon which the walls have been built.
It's a bit of a saga I know, but as long as you don't mind offering advice, I'll keep on posting, so thanks again in advance.

If it was mine, I would think about knocking it down, putting a new foundation in, and then sticking up a 9 inch backing wall with ties and then using the stone to face it. It's similar to a job I did for someone last year. I did the masonry, someone else stuck the greenhouse up.

GeordieGeorge

boxa said:

Righty, so not sounding great at this stage then 
Ideally, do not really want to go down the gabion route, any other potential options/solutions?
Cheers.

If you want a nice patio you really need to have the base done exceptionally well. A 5mm movement and your patio is wrecked.

We’ve had ours done recently, and we went for Portland stone slabs with narrow joints which looks amazing. The slabs themselves were the easy bit, it was the major foundations which took up the majority of the work, ensuring (hopefully…) that the patio will remain perfect for decades.

FreeBear

boxa said:  The fella that built the wall has built both walls (the stone and concrete block wall) onto the existing steps which went down into the garden. I am now a bit worried about the foundations (as he didn't put any new ones in, apart from where the soil is) upon which the walls have been built.

If you have any doubts or concerns about the foundation, you need to dig a test pit or two and check them out. Alternatively, demolish and start again from scratch. Which ever option you go for, make sure there are some channels at the base for water to drain out of.

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but have you thought about a block & beam to span the void ?

It would save on heavy wall construction & back fill.

boxa

OK, seems it's going from bad to worse    not stressing though, it is what it is.
Knocking the stone wall down would be a last resort (although will do if needs must) and I had a look at the block and beam stuff but can't help but think there will be a bit of spring in the 'floor' which would trouble the patio.
After the wall had been built and I then began looking at it as a DIY project, one option was (although not preferred) to put some kind of decking on the front half toward the wall and then patio behind it. 
Problem is we want to keep it in fitting with the garden 'n' that, hence building the stone wall and we planned on having Indian stone down as the patio.
Any thoughts on that as a better alternative and also any suggestions for a rustic type decking.
You all probably get fed up with hearing it, but thanks 👍

Eldi_Dos

Hi I hope you can forgive me for saying but the title of this thread and pictures of all the old bricks and debris seem to have got us all thinking along lines of, how to make up ground on a slope, how to retain that ground, how to turn a decorative wall into a retaining wall, are the foundations of wall suitable if its used as a retaining wall. Maybe if we go back to the beginning and dispose of all the old bricks and debris elsewhere forget about hardcore etc which would need to be contained and call the wall a decorative wall things will become simpler.What I would suggest is clean off the existing steps and lay a suitable bedding material that would provide drainage to channel through wall, build up to suitable level with Filcor or similar ( as mentioned in link from previous poster). Construct your patio on this and tie patio into wall in manner shown in posting from @stuart45 on page one of thread. This way seems to me a lot less work and less to worry about.Hope I have not broken any etiquette rules by quoting other posters.

stuart45

No problem quoting people. Always good to hear different opinions on a job. The only problem with Filcor is that it's a void filler and needs reinforced concrete on top of it.  Years ago you had to build shuttering into the void and leave it in there to rot.

To put reinforced concrete on top of the Filcor it needs to sit on the walls at the side of it, which need to be stable.

An option with a void that needs a lot of hardcore, is if you have a pick up truck, nowadays you can charge a lot of money to remove it and dump it in your void. 
It's also not the cheapest material.

boxa

Eldi_Dos said:

Hi I hope you can forgive me for saying but the title of this thread and pictures of all the old bricks and debris seem to have got us all thinking along lines of, how to make up ground on a slope, how to retain that ground, how to turn a decorative wall into a retaining wall, are the foundations of wall suitable if its used as a retaining wall. Maybe if we go back to the beginning and dispose of all the old bricks and debris elsewhere forget about hardcore etc which would need to be contained and call the wall a decorative wall things will become simpler.What I would suggest is clean off the existing steps and lay a suitable bedding material that would provide drainage to channel through wall, build up to suitable level with Filcor or similar ( as mentioned in link from previous poster). Construct your patio on this and tie patio into wall in manner shown in posting from @stuart45 on page one of thread. This way seems to me a lot less work and less to worry about.Hope I have not broken any etiquette rules by quoting other posters.

HI Eldi and thanks for the feedback, apologies if my title post has been misleading.

Initially I was just after some pointers as to the best way to lay the subbase for a patio. The reason for the photos was just to give an idea of the depth and also how it angled down toward the wall. 

I’d imagine we then digressed as it was immediately pointed out that the ‘retaining’ wall was not really fit for purpose, which then had to have me thinking how I overcome this problem. The bricks and debris are there simply because we had scavenged them from around our garden/property and was going to use them as part of the subbase.

Anyway, a bit of an update… I called Cordek about potentially using the Filcor blocks. The fella there was very helpful and basically said it would be a very expensive way of solving the problem and also a bit of a logistical nightmare due to the curve in the wall and the steps. Funnily enough, he said he was in the middle of a very similar project (maybe hence him being so helpful 😊) and that he had had a structural engineer to have a look who recommended block & beam, which Freebear had mentioned previously. The upshot of this is I shall leave you in peace for a while and have a structural engineer come to have a look and listen to their professional opinion. That’s not to say I haven’t listened to any of your opinions (and I would imagine some of them have been professional by what you have had to say) it’s just they will be able to come and have a look, measure and dig around so to speak.

However, you have not got rid of me for good as I will report back to update you all on what the structural engineer had to say and how I am going to go forward. 

Hopefully, in the not too distant future, I will also be updating you with some photos of the finished project, with a bit of luck it’ll be done in time for a nice Indian summer, we’ll see 🤞

Right, I am going to thank you all once more for your fantastic support and ideas, I am definitely further ahead than I would have been if I had not posted on here.

Take care everyone and I’ll be back with updates, so watch this space 😉

Rosa_Damascena

stuart45 said:

If it was mine, I would think about knocking it down, putting a new foundation in, and then sticking up a 9 inch backing wall with ties and then using the stone to face it. It's similar to a job I did for someone last year. I did the masonry, someone else stuck the greenhouse up.

That's a very fancy greenhouse! Foundations are quite an extravagance for a building you cannot access from inside the house!