Forget that I ever existed

Dakta

"Flexibility is key"

Bingo.

eastmidsaver

i think theoretically, the generic rule is if you are being paid, you should be working.  this therefore means you should be at your desk with computer on at your start time.
however, different employers take a different stance, and some are more flexible than others.
for example, i have had some employers demand that we at desk at computer on by 9am.
i have had some employers be ok as long as you walked into the office by the start time (and just switch computer on as you get in).
and one was even asking you to be there earlier than your allocated start time for pre work meetings (unpaid) - which i don;t think is fair (i didn't stay with that company very long).
but as i said above, being ready to work at your start time is the standard rule.  

Sandtree

Is it more important that someone sits in their seat from 9am to 5pm even if they are just playing tetris or looking at Facebook or that they complete the entry of the 100 sales made by the field team yesterday?

There are jobs where bums on seats are important even if they are twiddling their thumbs because the call volumes coming in are lower than was anticipated etc. For many other jobs however the idea that the time on the clock is more important than productivity etc is generally being seen as antiquated and focusing on the wrong things (I forget the term thats been created to describe it)

I think we are a long way off the fully agile mechanisms of working where you're role is to enter the day's field sales that coming in at 8pm by 6pm the following day and its up to you what time of day you do it, where you do it and if you slog through and get it done in 6 hours or take your time, have a few breaks and do it over 10 hours. We are starting to see signs of moving towards this though (and some clear signs from others that we aren't there yet). It will need a new way of thinking about employee protection for those that can work in a fully flexible way.

Brie

Sandtree said:

Is it more important that someone sits in their seat from 9am to 5pm even if they are just playing tetris or looking at Facebook or that they complete the entry of the 100 sales made by the field team yesterday?

That's why lots of employers banned having your phone at your desk.  Must admit yonks back I used to confiscate them off some (young, lazy. failing) team members.  We were a very busy place with more than enough work to keep us all busy from now until next month and tetris or texting was forbidden.  Now with skype chat and all sorts available at work people don't need their own phones quite so much.  But phones can still be banned if your employer deems them a security risk due to the fact they now all include cameras. 

prowla

I've worked at places where you clocked in and out, which was evidently before you got to your work station.

molerat

TheSpiddalKid said:

There was until about 10 years ago a tower block in the centre of Rochdale, above the old bus station, which housed part of the council staff. It was i think built in the early 70's at which time there was agreement with the unions that staff officially started at 0908 and finished work at 16:22 to account for the calculated 8 minutes it took to get from the front door to the furthest desk on the top floor but still got paid from 9:00 - 16:30. the rule was famously done away with when the tower block was demolished in the mid 2000's and staff moved to other premises with less floors. 

And council staff wonder why they get a bad rep.  I know someone who worked for a council and they all sat at their desks from 1650 with their coats on.  They weren't happy when the department got TUPED as that bit wasn't in the deal.

Sandtree

Brie said:

Sandtree said:

Is it more important that someone sits in their seat from 9am to 5pm even if they are just playing tetris or looking at Facebook or that they complete the entry of the 100 sales made by the field team yesterday?

That's why lots of employers banned having your phone at your desk.  Must admit yonks back I used to confiscate them off some (young, lazy. failing) team members.  We were a very busy place with more than enough work to keep us all busy from now until next month and tetris or texting was forbidden.  Now with skype chat and all sorts available at work people don't need their own phones quite so much.  But phones can still be banned if your employer deems them a security risk due to the fact they now all include cameras. 

In call centres it was more a concern of people recording card numbers etc.

In the first call centre I worked at most the team managers didn't allow any talking, reading etc (the computers didn't have games, internet or email etc). Most the time it wasn't a problem at all as it was rarely more than a few seconds between calls but sometimes they got it very wrong. Was working the day Diana's death was announced and it was 30 minutes between calls and you were supposed to sit there in silence and read the training manuals.

As said, there are jobs where you are responsive and so need to be there but there are many managers who apply the same approach to those that don't 

techwatcher

Sandtree said:

There are jobs where bums on seats are important even if they are twiddling their thumbs because the call volumes coming in are lower than was anticipated etc. For many other jobs however the idea that the time on the clock is more important than productivity etc is generally being seen as antiquated and focusing on the wrong things (I forget the term thats been created to describe it)

I think we are a long way off the fully agile mechanisms of working where you're role is to enter the day's field sales that coming in at 8pm by 6pm the following day and its up to you what time of day you do it, where you do it and if you slog through and get it done in 6 hours or take your time, have a few breaks and do it over 10 hours. We are starting to see signs of moving towards this though (and some clear signs from others that we aren't there yet). It will need a new way of thinking about employee protection for those that can work in a fully flexible way.

Early in my career I worked for a company whose appraisal system included assessment of 'hours worked'. I suppose the intention was to recognise and reward the hard workers. What this led to in reality was people staying at their desks after normal working hours playing games. It drove the wrong behaviours. 

In an ideal world it shouldn't matter where or when the work gets done as long as it gets done on time and to the required standard. I agree that this is a way off but we are starting to see it happening in some areas. 

eastmidsaver

call centres are the worst.
that is where we had to turn up for unpaid meetings before work began.
even was frowned upon if you wanted to go to the toilet - you were almost timed to be back within 2 minutes, and unable to exceed a total daily toilet allowance.  
and being late for whatever reason was not an option.
i feel very sorry for people working in those conditions.

maisie_cat

molerat said:

TheSpiddalKid said:

There was until about 10 years ago a tower block in the centre of Rochdale, above the old bus station, which housed part of the council staff. It was i think built in the early 70's at which time there was agreement with the unions that staff officially started at 0908 and finished work at 16:22 to account for the calculated 8 minutes it took to get from the front door to the furthest desk on the top floor but still got paid from 9:00 - 16:30. the rule was famously done away with when the tower block was demolished in the mid 2000's and staff moved to other premises with less floors. 

And council staff wonder why they get a bad rep.  I know someone who worked for a council and they all sat at their desks from 1650 with their coats on.  They weren't happy when the department got TUPED as that bit wasn't in the deal.

My mum was that council worker! she never worked an extra minute without getting paid, I also had a neighbour who worked for the council and when told that she should not be using her mobile while working went off sick for 2 months with anxiety.
I've worked in a few public sector organisations and it was endemic.  on a flexi scheme which was widely abused, people coming into work at 8 then making private phone calls for an hour,  going to breakfast, reading the paper, actually going home to take the kids to school without clocking out, coming in, clocking in then going for a shower.