Any help with a party wall issue?

rach_k

tea_cake79 said:

The neighbours aren’t the most approachable and have done as much as possible to keep aspects of everything hush hush. They have told us the minimum they have to, hence why I want everything done fairly and us not taken for fools.

If that's the case, I'd get a party wall surveyor in.  By keeping quiet about things, they've brought it on themselves and I wouldn't trust them to let me know about any problems if they can't even be forthcoming about standard stuff!

When we had work done (only a loft conversion), we made sure to drop plans round, then chat with the neighbours to explain in layman's terms what we were doing.  When they had a question we couldn't answer, we put them in touch with our builder and he was happy to go round and talk them through everything.  When the scaffolding unexpectedly went over their front path, I went straight round to check they were okay with it because I didn't want them thinking we were starting off ignoring their wishes.  Your neighbours should be doing that!

Ganga

Would it not be to your and their benefit to go round and just say " will you show me the plans ,talk me through what you are intending to do etc " ,if they agree then share the PWA surveyor ,if they refuse or become abusive then say you will appoint your own and remind them that they are paying for it.
If you are worried about confronting the neighbours take someone with you and a note book to write down any info they do give you.

tea_cake79

It’s not that I’m worried about approaching them, I went around on the day the planning permission came through to just have a chat about it. I’m not a confrontational person at all, probably complete opposite but I just wanted clarification.  They acted so shady once they opened the door, gave very vague answers and made it clear they didn’t want to converse. They aren’t neighbourly as such and other neighbours feel the same as us so to speak. 

I guess, summarising all these helpful comments we need a party wall surveyor. It’s now to suss if we use theirs or  find our own 

GDB2222

I expect that you and your neighbours will never be great chums in future, whatever you do. If you stand up for yourself, they'll be grumpy. If you let them walk all over you, you'll be resentful.

A reasonable compromise is to have a joint PW surveyor, but it has to be one that you are happy with. If the neighbours have chosen the new kid on the block, perhaps because he's cheapest, or more likely because he's available quickly, tell them that you are not happy with their choice. 

I'd find a surveyor that you are happy with, and check whether he will work as a single joint surveyor. Then tell the neighbours that you have chosen him, and ask whether they want him as joint surveyor? They of course have the choice to continue with their own chap for themselves, if that is what they want.

mug2007

If you choose to agree then you will be covered by the act which includes avoiding unnecessary inconvenience and making good any damage caused by the works which will be sufficient for a lot of minor party wall works.  

If there is anything you are concerned about or disagree with it’s best to ask your neighbour first.  You can agree things in writing with the building owner, like a schedule of condition of your house before the building work commences. 

If you choose the surveyor route then an award is drawn up, which in the case of minor works may not amount to more than what agreeing to the act covers already.

Should you take the surveyor route they will take photos of the condition before the works start.  I would take some photos yourself covering your side, surveyors tend to limit themselves to the just party wall works, and could miss things like roofs where roof tiles are easily broken from accidents when builders are next door.  

The best source of info is the government explanatory booklet https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/523010/Party_Wall_etc__Act_1996_-_Explanatory_Booklet.pdf

Here are some relevant paragraphs:

The government explanatory booklet 

• Paragraph 12 the best way of settling any point of difference is by friendly discussion with your neighbour. 

• Paragraph 36 says the appointment of an agreed surveyor is preferable for residential circumstances should you not agree or want some assurance the correct procedures are followed.

RICs released a new party walls consumer guide June 2020 which states

•  "selecting the same surveyor as your neighbour is often considered a neighbourly thing to do"  (Page 5) given a surveyor appointed under the  Act is under a duty to act impartially.

mug2007

Rdwill said:

Doozergirl said:

I never understand why two are needed.   They're not solicitors with each vying to win something or potential conflicts of interest, (after all, they both get paid by the same person!)  They only need to work to the party wall act.  It's structural engineers and builders that have to provide all the drawings and method statements etc. 

I think neighbourly relations are most important.  Money saved on surveyors is money potentially spent on something tangible that provides a better outcome for both neighbours - fences, planting, finishes etc.  

Totally agree, they work for the wall in a 'quasi judicial' role, the whole Party Wall thing is a complete racket supported by legislation. The legislation says that there can be two, and boy do they take advantage, especially at £150 per hour each. You could get two surgeons for that, but what you will probably get is a pair of illiterate bullies!!

About time this was changed.  Building owners who do send the notice shouldn't have to risk potentially paying thousands for the work of 2 surveyors. I have no idea what the second surveyor contributed for our award (which had nothing beyond what the act covered already). It doesn't surprise me that someone got so aggravated that they took their case to court (Amir-Siddique v Kowaliw May 2018) and the judge stated the cost of the second surveyor enforced by the neighbour was unreasonable.  Given most of us don’t really want to go to court to try and claim the 2nd surveyor fee back, it would make sense to change it to 1 surveyor for residential works.

Had my neighbour agreed to the act I would have happily paid to replace her entire fence but after the great party wall robbery I only paid for the bit we damaged.

Martyn_H

One advantage of having a Party Wall Award (as they call it) is that you can limit the times when the builders are able to make a noise.

Rdwill

Martyn_H said:

One advantage of having a Party Wall Award (as they call it) is that you can limit the times when the builders are able to make a noise.

Only when working on the Party Wall, the rest of the time the site is governed by Common Law or the Environmental Protection Act.

That was my neighbour's misunderstanding, thinking that she could get the Party Wall Surveyors to police my whole site, when actually the Award only applied when I was working on the Party Wall, which in terms of the work done was probably less than 1%.

The outcome being
a. The lack of control when she thought she had it drove her batty, to the point of coming round and shouting the odds with the builder.
b. Proving why the PWA is a complete waste of time and money.

GDB2222

The advice seems to divide neatly into two camps:-

A … People who have had building work done think the PW act is iniquitous.

B … Neighbours who have had this work inflicted on them think the PW Act is great. 

GDB2222

I’m in group B, by the way.