Please Help My Seller Has Died

GDB2222

One other question: If the sole executor is dead, who is going to grant this licence to you?

So_Near_But_So_Far

Thank you so much for all of the comments everybody, one thing seems to be unanimous, and that is that everybody feels this claims for costs is a normal part of this process.

TBagpuss said:
They have also explained that normally, if you had a licence to occupy there would be fees involved but they have not included any as they are not looking to charge you - they are trying to reduce the costs and delay caused by the death. 

Yes the reason for this is that I had already refused to sign a previous version that not only had a licence fee but a stipulation that either party could end the licence with 5 days notice!

TBagpuss said:

Once completion takes place, at that time you will be able to quantify your actual costs - presumably these will be your additional legal costs, any costs you incurred in having to change the moving date, accommodation costs for the period until they were able to offer the licence etc. 

I probably should have added originally that other than the legal fees my costs are fairly modest. This was very much always about getting the extra solicitors fees covered really.

AdrianC said:

So_Near_But_So_Far said:

I exchanged on the purchase of a property mid-May 2021, with both parties ready for a completion a week or so later. The property is an executers sale with a number of beneficiaries to the estate. 

...

Unfortunately the executer to the estate passed away in the early hours of the day of completion, meaning the transfer document was never signed.

...

The sellers solicitors said they had made an emergency application to the Probate Registry to appoint one of the beneficiaries of the estate as an administrator/executer

They're doing all they can to get it signed and completed asap.
The death of the executor doesn't change anything about the estate's legal obligation to complete.
They remain liable for any reasonable expenses caused by the delay, with an expectation on you to mitigate them.

I see this now having read all of your comments, and as in effect he doesn't have a client then I realise he needs to be careful what he says. 

AdrianC said:

and in the meantime have produced a licence to occupy the property that they are encouraging me to accept, I’m not inclined to do this

Such is, of course, your prerogative.

But accepting this would allow you to move in, which will massively help to mitigate your costs arising from the delay in completion.

Only simply because the original one was so biased towards the sellers, again now armed with new information I feel better informed.

 AdrianC said:
...as the document raises as many questions as it does answers, and of course the more queries I raise the higher the potential bill to my solicitor becomes.

I had already been pushed right to the wire financially to get to this stage and literally can’t afford any more if these fees keep increasing.

You don't have a lot of choice. You are as legally obliged to complete as the vendor is.

I understood I can serve notice for them not completing, and if they can't within 10 days claim all of my expenses back and the contract is rescinded. So currently I would disagree with this point.

  AdrianC said:

So I instructed my solicitor to question the sellers solicitor as to whether they could confirm my costs would be covered, the reply was as follows;

Although the terms of the Contract permit the seller to charge a licence fee to the buyer for occupation we have not included a licence fee in the draft Licence in all of the circumstances and we hope therefore that your client will in return do his best to mitigate any losses or expenses.

Translated from legalese, it's just saying "We could charge you to move in, but we won't. Don't take the mick with your costs."

If you don't take them up on that, and expect them to cover your costs, I hope you've got good justification.

I do, the fact that my costs are minimal as I said above, mostly made up from arguing the toss about the licence.

Jenni_D said:

So_Near_But_So_Far said:

Because my conveyancing solicitor was on a set fee for completing the purchase, from the point this happened I moved to an hourly fee, which (as usual) is eye-watering!

This caught my eye ... if completion hasn't yet occurred then why are they now on an hourly rate?

I'm going to check up on this but I suspect like user1977 says above it's probably within the terms.

FaceHead said:

- Accept the license to occupy. As you have so far rejected their offer of a free place to live, you are failing to mitigate your current housing costs. Therefore your current housing costs are not recoverable from the estate, so it's in your interest to move in pronto and avoid your current costs.
- Relax and wait for them to sort out completion whilst unpacking and getting comfy in your new home.
- After completion make a claim for your additional costs e.g. legal and extra moving costs, anything arising from the delay, and your housing costs up to the point they made the offer of the license to occupy. This should be a letter by your solicitor to the new executor, who will likely cough up out of the estate's monies.

Not the case as staying with family so no rents etc payable. yes I can start to see that this might be possible now but not before all of the posts here.

Deleted_User said:

out of interest,  why were you inclined to not accept the license to occupy?   If you incur legal costs as a result of clarifying any terms in this then they would be recoverable as an expense.   Your costs at the moment probably wouldn't be unless you can evidence a good reason that this offer was unacceptable 

As I said above the original one was basically straight out of the template draw and very biased indeed, in fact I think I emailed my solicitor back in about 5 minutes saying "I don't think so".

And a reason I may be suspicious about the new version. I should point out is that the sellers solicitors has been a complete arrogant 'bleap' throughout the entire process, even directly accusing me of causing delays and then dropping the argument as soon as I remonstrated through my solicitor and pointing out how wrong he was. it is possible this wasn't actually him but a bolshy assistant doing so in his name, but of course from my side makes no difference.

GDB2222 said:

I don't think you can expect a blanket agreement to whatever bills you happen to run up. Otherwise, you might decide to move into a suite at The Ritz until this is sorted out. The sellers sound like they are being reasonable and want to get this sorted out fairly.

No and I wasn't expecting one, only an answer as to whether I can claim back the modest additional costs I run up. Please bear in mind that when I originally questioned my solicitor about claiming these costs back from the estate it was only ever for their extra conveyancing costs nothing more. it's only have read on here and more generally online that I've found people often claim for much much more. This is about fairness (within what I can afford), I have no desire to fleece anybody.

GDB2222 said:

In your position, the very first thing I would do is ask your solicitor for a quote for advising you on the terms of the licence. Then I would write to the sellers as follows:

Its a bit late for a quote because so much has been discussed/emailed about the licence already.

GDB2222 said:

In your position, the very first thing I would do is ask your solicitor for a quote for advising you on the terms of the licence. Then I would write to the sellers as follows:

Probably isn't any need with the new version as it's in reasonably easy to understand English. There are only 2 ways it can be brought to a conclusion for instance, either we complete or I serve a notice and the contract is rescinded.

GDB2222 said:

One other question: If the sole executor is dead, who is going to grant this licence to you?

This is on the fifth paragraph of my original post, they are trying to get an emergency grant from the Probate Registry to appoint one of the other beneficiaries of the estate as an executer.

Thanks one again everyone.

getmore4less

If deceased executor  had a will with named executor that creates executors chain.

So_Near_But_So_Far

So the consensus above seems to be that I won't have any problem claiming back my modest costs.

Now can anyone tell me how this is normally done?

My solicitor still doesn't seem to be as optimistic you see.

AdrianC

So_Near_But_So_Far said:

So the consensus above seems to be that I won't have any problem claiming back my modest costs.

Now can anyone tell me how this is normally done?

If it can't be mutually agreed, then you lodge a small claim with the courts.

GrumpyDil

It's a very unfortunate situation but the executors solicitor has indicated that they are working to finalise the sale.

Work with them and keep your costs reasonable(so no going out to eat at the Ritz in London) and it should all keep being amicable.

Your solicitor can't give you any guarantees and I very much suspect this is a new situation to him/her as well.

As Adrian says if you can't agree about your costs then you'd always have the option of court action but that's some way off at the moment

So_Near_But_So_Far

AdrianC said:

So_Near_But_So_Far said:

So the consensus above seems to be that I won't have any problem claiming back my modest costs.

Now can anyone tell me how this is normally done?

If it can't be mutually agreed, then you lodge a small claim with the courts.

GrumpyDil said:

It's a very unfortunate situation but the executors solicitor has indicated that they are working to finalise the sale.

Work with them and keep your costs reasonable(so no going out to eat at the Ritz in London) and it should all keep being amicable.

Your solicitor can't give you any guarantees and I very much suspect this is a new situation to him/her as well.

As Adrian says if you can't agree about your costs then you'd always have the option of court action but that's some way off at the moment

Thank you both of you. So I literally just ask my conveyancer to make a request to cover unavoidable costs caused by the delay once the emergency grant is obtained?

paulj2021

One point I’d add, I’m sure it’s common sense and I’m sure you’ll do this anyway but try to be sensitive when dealing with the estate, as executors are often relatives of the deceased, by the sound of it this family has had two recent deaths to deal with and they’re probably struggling to cope. I know you’re out of pocket but it will all be resolved in time, if you are too blunt with your financial demands you might just see the shutters going down because it’s too much for them to cope with.