Ryanair - surely this cannot be legal?

Topcatk

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Aylesbury_Duck

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

That doesn't sound remotely right, but why on earth did you book a flight with a company that treated you that way before?

MattMattMattUK

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Yes this is legal, no they will not let you fly without resolving it.

The fact that the chargeback went through does not establish on a legal basis that you did not owe they money or were entitled to the refund. It was also well known that where refunds were due the airlines were struggling to process them all due to the huge volumes they were having to deal with. From Ryanair's perspective you took an "agressive" action, before it was even established you were due a refund. You may well be able to get the matter resolved with their finance department if it can be established that you were originally entitled to a refund, but due to you previously using the chargeback it will take time to resolve.

MattMattMattUK

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

That doesn't sound remotely right, but why on earth did you book a flight with a company that treated you that way before?

By jumping the gun and starting a chargeback they will have disruption the process to establish if they were due a refund. If they were legally due a refund it will get get resolved with no additional costs, although Ryanair may bar them from future flights regardless. If they were not due a refund then they will have to pay if they wish to fly, and may be barred from future flights regardless.

Aylesbury_Duck

MattMattMattUK said:

Aylesbury_Duck said:

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

That doesn't sound remotely right, but why on earth did you book a flight with a company that treated you that way before?

By jumping the gun and starting a chargeback they will have disruption the process to establish if they were due a refund. If they were legally due a refund it will get get resolved with no additional costs, although Ryanair may bar them from future flights regardless. If they were not due a refund then they will have to pay if they wish to fly, and may be barred from future flights regardless.

Understood, thanks. 

Topcatk

MattMattMattUK said:

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Yes this is legal, no they will not let you fly without resolving it.

The fact that the chargeback went through does not establish on a legal basis that you did not owe they money or were entitled to the refund. It was also well known that where refunds were due the airlines were struggling to process them all due to the huge volumes they were having to deal with. From Ryanair's perspective you took an "agressive" action, before it was even established you were due a refund. You may well be able to get the matter resolved with their finance department if it can be established that you were originally entitled to a refund, but due to you previously using the chargeback it will take time to resolve.

Hi, interesting point of view - thanks. At no point has Ryanair contacted me to say that they believe I was refunded incorrectly or to say there was a debt on my account as such. I went through their complaints process and received no response. After waiting for the Ryanair published response times I contacted the credit card company. The credit card company gave Ryanair time to respond. I don’t believe they did. 

Therefore they have taken my money for a new flight - if they aren’t going to let me fly without paying more money, surely they have to give me an option of a refund? 

Topcatk

Aylesbury_Duck said:

That doesn't sound remotely right, but why on earth did you book a flight with a company that treated you that way before?

Unfortunately beggars got be choosers....the flight is needed for urgent family reasons ....and to be honest I bear them no hard feelings .... but don’t trust the company.

Sandtree

Aylesbury_Duck said:
That doesn't sound remotely right

Courts, not banks, are the ones that have the authority to make decisions on if monies are owed or not.

As is always the warning of making chargeback or direct debit guarantee requests is that this is just the bank putting their hand into the pocket of the merchant and taking the money out. Its within the T&Cs of the banks agreement so there is no comeback on the bank but it doesn't mean that it doesn't create a debt. It just puts the boot on the other foot so now the merchant has the hassle of chasing the customer rather than the customer chasing the merchant.

A former client's systems were setup to instantly issue a 14 day letter before action and then court papers on each chargeback received as they believed the banking system is rigged against them and so no point disputing the chargebacks.

So, the OP took money from RyanAir via a chargeback and its not a great surprise that RyanAir have used part of the new monies received to be offset against the debt (offsetting is a fairly well established legal principle). They therefore need to go back to the original request for refund and if/when thats processed the outstanding monies due on the new flights will be paid by it.

Laz123

I am proud to say I have never nor ever will use O'Leary's unscrupulous company.

MattMattMattUK

Topcatk said:

MattMattMattUK said:

Topcatk said:

Booked a flexible fare in April in full (luckily) using my credit card. Tried to change the flight online today and website said that I had an outstanding balance against this booking. After waiting for 901 people ahead of me to also talk to online chat, customer services told me that I had previously used chargeback for a previous booking (which Ryanair had cancelled due to COVID) and therefore (it seems) that they had used part of my payment for this flight to reimburse themselves. Therefore I need to pay another £95! I can’t access my boarding pass/ticket until I have paid. 

Surely this cannot be legal? Yes I had used chargeback for previous cancelled flight after Ryanair failed to refund me within the agreed timescales. The credit card company gave Ryanair chance to dispute the charge and they didn’t.  They took my money for a new booking for a new flight. The two transactions are totally separate. 

I was told I have to call their Finance team on Monday 🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

Yes this is legal, no they will not let you fly without resolving it.

The fact that the chargeback went through does not establish on a legal basis that you did not owe they money or were entitled to the refund. It was also well known that where refunds were due the airlines were struggling to process them all due to the huge volumes they were having to deal with. From Ryanair's perspective you took an "agressive" action, before it was even established you were due a refund. You may well be able to get the matter resolved with their finance department if it can be established that you were originally entitled to a refund, but due to you previously using the chargeback it will take time to resolve.

Hi, interesting point of view - thanks. At no point has Ryanair contacted me to say that they believe I was refunded incorrectly or to say there was a debt on my account as such. I went through their complaints process and received no response. After waiting for the Ryanair published response times I contacted the credit card company. The credit card company gave Ryanair time to respond. I don’t believe they did. 

As Sandtree mentions above, Chargeback does not in any way decide if the money is owed, as you cut RyanAir's refund process off before it had finished by using Chargeback as far as RyanAir are concerned you still owe the money. What you need to do is establish that you were actually due a refund (highly likely if as you say RyanAir cancelled the flight themselves, but there could be complications around vouchers etc.). Whilst they would have been given time to respond, many airlines were totally swamped with refunds, Chargeback applications, issuing vouchers etc. and so they simply could not respond in time to the vast majority of them.

Topcatk said:

Therefore they have taken my money for a new flight - if they aren’t going to let me fly without paying more money, surely they have to give me an option of a refund? 

There is no "therefore" unfortunately. As far as RyanAir are concerned you still owe them money for the first flight as the refund was never completed. As such you have an ongoing debt with them and need to either clear that first, or establish that you were due a refund for the first flight. In relation to the second flight RyanAir, in their terms and conditions reserve the right to recover amounts owed against future flights. 

It will depend what you mean "surely they have to give me an option of a refund". For the first flight, you will need to call them to establish that the refund should have been issued, in which case you will owe them nothing and be able to fly. Until you establish that you were owed with them then you will not be allowed to fly with them again and as it currently stands they would owe you a refund on the second flight, as that money was owed to them from the first flight.

It might sound and seem a bit messy, but it will be easy to resolve. Call them on Monday, if the refund from the first flight was due then the matter will be resolved quickly. If you were not owed a refund for the first flight and you wish to fly on the second flight then you will have to pay the balance. Also be aware that they are fully within their rights to refuse your business in the future, so could bar you from making future bookings after this is resolved, although most airlines seem to have been much more lenient for Covid related Chargeback claims. 

brianposter

The practical solution seems to be to pay so that you can fly, and then recover the money through the small claims court (which will require a study as to whether the UK or EU court should be used).