Unsure of ‘true copy’ of CCA

Sazz26

Hi

I have received a CCA from Tesco bank and it is a ‘true’ copy. However, my address included in this copy is my current address NOT the address when I opened the account - does this make the copy not a ‘true copy’

Also within the first two pages of the signed agreement, it does not have the address of the bank - it only includes the address in the general terms and conditions and I am unsure if this is also wrong as it’s not included within the signed agreement itself.

any advice would be greatly appreciated!

thanks!

[Deleted User]

Banks can create reproductions of CCAs to meet with S77/S78 request but must meet criteria including the address from when the debt was taken out. Enforcement in court is a different matter. I'm sure they will fix it if you decide to use that to stop paying the  debts you have that you know you owe and should pay back.

Carey vs HSBC

sourcrates

Whether its a true copy or not, makes little difference, as stated above, creditors can provide a reconstituted version which is perfectly acceptable, as long as the basics are correct, and it is legible.

It is probably sufficient to comply with a request under sec 77, but is it sufficient to prove legal liability ?

Well only a court can decide on that one, the only reason companies don`t often defend such cases in court is down to cost.


They could for example splash out on a solicitor who could spend weeks/months gathering evidence that the card was used by you, provide statements showing transactions, receipts for goods obtained and paid for using that card, etc etc etc, you get my drift, but it would be expensive, with no guarantee they would ever recover the money.


Spending £10 grand, defending a case where the debt is only £3 grand, is just not a viable option, so most of the time they just let it slide, ignore you, or sell the debt, if/when challenged on enforceability.

Exercising your statutory rights is never a bad thing, don`t let anyone convince you otherwise, if there are deficiencies in the legality of the copy agreement, it can be to your benefit if you choose to partially settle the debt.

Good luck to you.

Sandtree

Sazz26 said:

any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Pay your debts rather than looking for loopholes

If you cannot afford to pay your debts then speak to a debt charity like Stepchange who will help in more constructive ways than loopholes. 

Sazz26

Some of these replies have such a nasty tone. People do struggle with circumstances and have debts for reasons other than they just ‘liked the look of something’! There’s a whole host of social and economical reasons for debt. Simply directing me to ‘pay your debt’ is not helpful, this sort of ‘shock’ advice is so old fashioned, no one ever responds well to the nasty and direct teacher at school, this style is so outdated. Try a bit of empathy and understanding, and you’d probably get a lot more out of people, surprisingly so! 

ThisnotThat

Sazz26 said:

Some of these replies have such a nasty tone. People do struggle with circumstances and have debts for reasons other than they just ‘liked the look of something’! There’s a whole host of social and economical reasons for debt. Simply directing me to ‘pay your debt’ is not helpful, this sort of ‘shock’ advice is so old fashioned, no one ever responds well to the nasty and direct teacher at school, this style is so outdated. Try a bit of empathy and understanding, and you’d probably get a lot more out of people, surprisingly so! 

Plenty of people (including the ones you're criticizing) are completely sympathetic to the reasons why people get into debt.  That doesn't mean they're sympathetic to people looking for technicalities to get out of paying it.

As for your claims that "shock" advice not working, perhaps not. But in my experience neither does "empathy."  It just reinforces people's (often mistaken) beliefs that they're just innocent victims to the big bad banks.  Which is rarely true.

sourcrates

Sazz26 said:

Some of these replies have such a nasty tone. People do struggle with circumstances and have debts for reasons other than they just ‘liked the look of something’! There’s a whole host of social and economical reasons for debt. Simply directing me to ‘pay your debt’ is not helpful, this sort of ‘shock’ advice is so old fashioned, no one ever responds well to the nasty and direct teacher at school, this style is so outdated. Try a bit of empathy and understanding, and you’d probably get a lot more out of people, surprisingly so! 

You should arm yourself with every weapon available to you, when in debt.

Occasionally, if disposable income is tight, common sense requires you to prioritise what order you pay your debts in.


Standard order is this -

Essential payments, such as rent or mortgage, council tax, utilities, food etc etc.

Non essential payments, includes everything else you spend money on, credit debts being last of all to be paid.


If the money won`t stretch to all the debts you have, then sec 77/79 is a handy piece of legislation consumers can use to ascertain their position.


You can choose to pay enforceable debts, over unenforceable ones, thus removing the threat of any legal action.
Its not about loopholes, or not paying what you owe, its about what is a priority debt at the time, and what is not.

[Deleted User]

Sazz26 said:

Some of these replies have such a nasty tone. People do struggle with circumstances and have debts for reasons other than they just ‘liked the look of something’! There’s a whole host of social and economical reasons for debt. Simply directing me to ‘pay your debt’ is not helpful, this sort of ‘shock’ advice is so old fashioned, no one ever responds well to the nasty and direct teacher at school, this style is so outdated. Try a bit of empathy and understanding, and you’d probably get a lot more out of people, surprisingly so! 

There are 3 replies, none of them are nasty, just people dealing with facts. You came on here looking to get advice whether you can use a loophole to get out of paying what you owe, it's unclear what empathy/understanding you were after? If you want help with debt, ask for it, posting on the credit card sub you will get answers you don't want to hear, that doesn't mean they are nasty.

Sazz26

 I wasn’t looking for empathy but I wasn’t looking for criticism either, but that was readily given by assumptions I was looking for technicalities. Whatever the reasons I asked for a CCA are not relevant to this post, I asked for advice on what is a ‘true’ copy and whether what I received has omitted some essential criteria. That’s all I asked, not any other advice or assumptions about my situation. I can challenge the legality of an agreement, that’s my right if I have genuine belief I have not received a valid document. I agree I should pay my debts, but I also want to know that what I received is an honest legal document so we both, me and the bank, know where we stand and are complying with responsibilities.

sourcrates

You ask is this a true copy of my credit agreement, legislation has changed in the years since a "true copy" was thought necessary.

In the case linked to in post #2# above, (Carey v HSBC) it was decided that a company could re-constitute a copy agreement from information it held on the customer from other sources, not necessarily the original agreement.


However the fact the address is incorrect could be an issue, wear as it may satisfy sec 77, it may also render the agreement unenforceable in court, but as I said before, only a court can decide on that matter.

I also moved your post to the debt free wannabe board, as we are a lot more, lets say,  understanding of people in your situation here, hope that clarifies things for you.

Sazz26

sourcrates said:

You ask is this a true copy of my credit agreement, legislation has changed in the years since a "true copy" was thought necessary.

In the case linked to in post #2# above, (Carey v HSBC) it was decided that a company could re-constitute a copy agreement from information it held on the customer from other sources, not necessarily the original agreement.


However the fact the address is incorrect could be an issue, wear as it may satisfy sec 77, it may also render the agreement unenforceable in court, but as I said before, only a court can decide on that matter.

I also moved your post to the debt free wannabe board, as we are a lot more, lets say,  understanding of people in your situation here, hope that clarifies things for you.

Thank you - yes will post on here from now on. Honestly didn’t expect such a backlash (especially when the general public paid the banks debt in 2008).
what if the bank just change my address - would it make it a true copy then? Sorry if that seems a basic question, it’s just if they did change it, I’d know they’ve just done it because I prompted them, but then I couldn’t prove that if the details are then technically correct.
I am asking for cca because I want to be debt free when I apply for a mortgage - I ran into debt when I was learning to drive and very naive to the whole world of credit, it’s an easy problem to get yourself into. Thank you 😊