Euro Car Parks / PayByPhone

immse554646748

I've been through the newbie thread and had a search around but I can't find a post that matches my situation exactly.  I've no doubt that it probably is already covered but I'm having a hard time finding that one post that describes my situation perfectly

I parked my leased car in a privately managed car park and tried to pay-by-app.  The app reported "server error" and wouldn't let me pay.  I tried several times while juggling a 2-year-old and got the same result each time.  I ultimately left the car park without paying.

8 days later, Euro Car Parks obtained the keeper details (the lease company) from DVLA and sent them a PCN.  The lease company forwarded this to me 3 days later on day 11.  The lease company also provided my details to ECP and charged me an admin fee for the privilege.

On day 17, I appealed using the ECP website telling them about the issue with the app.

My appeal which was rejected on day 24.  The grounds for rejection were ultimately that no fault had been reported with the pay-by-phone services.  There is no obvious information about how to report a fault at the car park.  ECP provided a screen-shot of some other parking payments at around the same time I think to disprove my claim.  A POPLA code was included with the rejection.  The rejection came by post directly to my address.

At this point I was kind of resigned to the fact I was getting shafted and waited for the re-issued PCN to arrive.  Unfortunately, this never arrived - I have never received a PCN with my name and address on it.

On day 79, Euro Car Parks once again wrote to the lease company with a "Final Notice".  The lease company passed the letter on to me on day 87 and have again passed my details to ECP.  I will be charged another admin fee for this service.

Can I...

  Fight the original PCN?

  Claim the 2nd admin fee from ECP?

Incidentally, the sign at the car park (included in the rejection letter) makes no mention of either pay-by-phone or pay-by-app only that car park users should pay-and-display.  Does that count as confusing signage?

I've parked (and paid) at that car park before and since using the app.

What are my chances?

Thanks!

Fruitcake

If you appealed the original PCN then you won't get a NTH. 
Since the lease company sent your details to the PPC, you should have waited for them to send an NTH. By appealing, and presumably giving away the driver's identity, they are now pursuing you as driver and do not need to send a NTH.
Had you appealed as hirer/lessee you would probably have won at PoPLA. Now your job is much harder.

What happened when you complained to the landowner? That is always Plan A.

If no cancellation is forthcoming, then construct a draft appeal using all the points available to you from the third post of the NEWBIES and post it here for checking before you submit it.
PoPLA codes last 32 days.

Your appeal should normally include the following,

Not the landowner
No standing to issue charges in their own name
Inadequate signage
PoFA failures No longer possible if they know the name of the driver.
BPA CoP failures including lack of grace periods
Anything else relevant

Get pics of the site and signage ready for PoPLA.

Also check what your lease agreement says about paying charges from unregulated private parking companies. Whilst they are permitted to charge a fee to deal with them, you need to see exactly what your agreement says.
Often it only mentions fines, penalties, and issuing authorities. Private parking charges and unregulated private parking companies are none of these.

Also complain to your MP.

Coupon-mad

Arrrrghhhh.  You appealed as admitted driver and blew your 100% winning point as hirer/lessee that would have won at POPLA!  

if you gave ECP your NAME AND ADDRESS as driver then they had no lawful reason to write to the lease firm again and also, they should have given you a POPLA code in the rejection email. 

Complain to the BPA about ECP not transferring liability to you and not providing you with a POPLA code when you appealed.

immse554646748

Fruitcake said:

What happened when you complained to the landowner? That is always Plan A.

You say that like I should have known to do this which seems to be a theme here.  I think it would be fair to say that most people will do the intuitive thing and follow the appeals process in good faith.

In any case, I have subsequently contacted the landowner but not yet had a response.

PoPLA codes last 32 days.

In that case, the PoPLA code I have has expired while I was waiting for them to issue a notice in my name.

Also check what your lease agreement says about paying charges from unregulated private parking companies. Whilst they are permitted to charge a fee to deal with them, you need to see exactly what your agreement says.
Often it only mentions fines, penalties, and issuing authorities. Private parking charges and unregulated private parking companies are none of these.

Also complain to your MP.

I've asked the lease company to confirm that since they're correctly discharged their liability, they won't pay the charge.  The wording on their web site does say that they view private parking companies as having the same integrity as any local authority!

immse554646748

Coupon-mad said:

Arrrrghhhh.  You appealed as admitted driver and blew your 100% winning point as hirer/lessee that would have won at POPLA!

Well I know this now but I appealed in good faith naively assuming that the truth was adequate.

if you gave ECP your NAME AND ADDRESS as driver then they had no lawful reason to write to the lease firm again and also, they should have given you a POPLA code in the rejection email. 

Complain to the BPA about ECP not transferring liability to you and not providing you with a POPLA code when you appealed.

I provide name and address and the lease company also provided the same name and address.  I can't think of any good reason for them to write to the lease company except if they think that's the best way of getting paid.

In fairness, they did provide a POPLA code with their appeal rejection letter, but that code has expired because I was waiting for them to issue the notice in my name.  This is what the letter from the lease company said would happen.

Coupon-mad

OK so complain to the BPA that the parking firm had your appeal including your name and address and replied with a POPLA code, which sadly you didn’t realise expired and you were expecting to receive a PCN reissued to you because the lease firm had transferred liability to you properly, as well. 

But the complaint now is that the PPC has written to the lease firm again, despite the fact that liability was transferred and they should only be dealing with you.  Ask the BPA to investigate because this appears to be sharp practice (more likely to get paid by demands sent to a hire firm) and is contrary to the POFA and a clear breach of the BPA code of practice too.

Read and quote the part of the BPA CoP that says that if they know the name & address of the driver and/ or if liability has been properly transferred, the PPC must only pursue the driver.