Estate Agent wants copy of Survey

DancingQueen93

We are FTB in the process of buying a 1930s detached house with extension. We had through the results of our Homebuyers Report last week and it has uncovered several serious issues. The majority of survey was marked as 3-serious with the rest 2 and only a couple of 1 ratings. The biggest issues are: penetrating and rising damp throughout. Penetrating is likely due to deterioration and inappropriate methods of fixing the outer render (surveyor says render is blown in many places and really all render needs to come off and be done again as it’s in terrible condition having been bodged with mastic sealant), rising damp due to failing of existing DPC (this looks like it was a DIY job) and ground level is above 150mm below DPC in places, main roof now needs replacing as it is original 1930s roof, wet rot in exterior joinery and facias, boiler and central heating system needs replacing due to age (has not been serviced since before lockdown 1 and no certificate given), flat roof of extension is significantly beyond life expectancy and needs replacing, front porch shows significant settlement and needs full reconstruction to ensure it is safe. Alongside this he commented the electrics seem to be a “bodge job” and would require at least partial re-wiring, however the seller provided us with a certificate to show it was fully tested 10 years ago so we have excluded this point. In addition there is no completion certificate for extension or any internal structural changes (removing and adding walls, done between 2005-2010) and asbestos is likely present throughout as artex has been applied to most ceilings. 

Due to all this, the surveyor estimated it would be around £25,000 - £30,000 of work we would need to do urgently so we want to re-negotiate the price with the seller. The property was not listed as “in need of renovation” though of course we expected some work as it’s 90 years old - but not to this extent. The surveyor said it is much more than he would normally find in a property of this age and instructed us to not send a copy of the survey to the estate agent/sellers under any circumstances! 

Obviously we will want to get quotes drawn up for all work needed and have sent a bullet point list of the issues to the estate agent notifying him we will want to renegotiate the price and that we would like permission to have further surveys carried out to get quotes for the work.

He has replied asking us to send him a copy of the full survey and an idea of the lower price we would like to offer. We obviously don’t have an accurate estimate yet apart from what the surveyor suggested and my family have advised us to offer MUCH lower to account for all work needed, the lack of completion certificates and inconvenience to life having all this building work carried out (ie £50k lower!!).

My questions are: we have been told NOT to send the survey report, however to back up our points about work needed, should we!? My partner is dead against sending even screenshots of relevant sections as we paid for it and it’s ours.
Would offering £50k lower be an insane idea and likely to make the seller pull out or would it provide a first step for negotiating to a more realistic price?

* note the seller has already moved out and overseas and wants to complete fast due to “financial commitments”. If we can’t reach an agreement we are more than happy to walk away.

user1977

DancingQueen93 said:

In addition there is no completion certificate for extension or any internal structural changes (removing and adding walls, done between 2005-2010) and asbestos is likely present throughout as artex has been applied to most ceilings. 

None of this bit should be relevant to the value of the property, unless you're saying the surveyor has spotted actual problems?

DancingQueen93

user1977 said:

DancingQueen93 said:

In addition there is no completion certificate for extension or any internal structural changes (removing and adding walls, done between 2005-2010) and asbestos is likely present throughout as artex has been applied to most ceilings. 

None of this bit should be relevant to the value of the property, unless you're saying the surveyor has spotted actual problems?

Surveyor said no problems spotted with build quality of extension. However our worry with that is with re-sale as with no completion certificate this would come back on us unless we can get retrospective regularisation (or find a buyer who doesn’t care if it’s been built to regulations). 

Would this then not be a point we can use to renegotiate price? They offered indemnity insurance which I’ve heard is not worth the paper it’s written on. If they did refuse to get retrospective regularisation (not asked yet but expect a “no” due to cost and inconvenience) we would be taking on the liability for an un-certified extension without knowing if it was done well or a DIY job (as it’s still standing and report said it appeared on the surface to be structurally sound it’s probably ok…but when we come to sell we would have the same issue which surely could affect value of property?). It’s a tricky one 

k3lvc

It’s a tricky one 

It's not tricky at all - you have your survey which you've taken to mean the place is falling down and you've apportioned a value in your head to that - you also know the vendor needs to sell

Assuming you're up for the project then you state your new offer and leave it with them and if not accepted you walk away

Given the level of repairs apparently needed how does the valuation compare to your original offer ?

user1977

DancingQueen93 said:

user1977 said:

DancingQueen93 said:

In addition there is no completion certificate for extension or any internal structural changes (removing and adding walls, done between 2005-2010) and asbestos is likely present throughout as artex has been applied to most ceilings. 

None of this bit should be relevant to the value of the property, unless you're saying the surveyor has spotted actual problems?

Surveyor said no problems spotted with build quality of extension. However our worry with that is with re-sale as with no completion certificate this would come back on us unless we can get retrospective regularisation (or find a buyer who doesn’t care if it’s been built to regulations). 

Would this then not be a point we can use to renegotiate price? They offered indemnity insurance which I’ve heard is not worth the paper it’s written on. If they did refuse to get retrospective regularisation (not asked yet but expect a “no” due to cost and inconvenience) we would be taking on the liability for an un-certified extension without knowing if it was done well or a DIY job (as it’s still standing and report said it appeared on the surface to be structurally sound it’s probably ok…but when we come to sell we would have the same issue which surely could affect value of property?). It’s a tricky one 

No, it isn't something which affects the price or marketability. The rest of the house isn't going to comply with current building regulations either, what matters is whether there are actually any problems - which ought to have become apparent over a decade later, and obviously it will be even more historic by the time you sell.

I would suggest you focus on the actual defects identified by the survey.

Similarly, things like "boiler and central heating system needs replacing due to age" don't sound particularly convincing - if it's working ok, why does it need replacing? In any event, it ought to have been obvious to you from your viewing that it wasn't brand new.

ciderboy2009

Does the surveyor actually say all of that?

There's many a 1930's roof (or earlier) still going strong so saying that it needs to be replaced just solely because of its age is a bit ridiculous.  Likewise, why does the flat roof need replacing?  Is it actually damaged/leaking?

Also, I've never heard of surveyors commenting on electrics or gas appliances before - they normally tell you to get an expert in to look at them as they're not qualified to.  A boiler not being serviced for 18 months is not a reason to condemn it.  If it's an older boiler then the odds are that it could go on for 20-25 years without major problems.

Asbestos in artex is something you get used to in older houses and, 99% of the time, is nothing to worry about.  Presumably you've not has the artex tested to actually see if it has any asbestos in it.

DancingQueen93

Given the level of repairs apparently needed how does the valuation compare to your original offer ?

Our survey didn’t include a valuation unfortunately but did recommend we lower the offer. Our mortgage lender has already approved our mortgage and did their own valuation, however they have not shared the valuation with us, so I don’t know. I could contact the mortgage lender to see if they can share the valuation (also don’t know if they actually sent someone in to see the property, or did it online with a cursory drive-by) but as mortgage approved I guess they thought value wasn’t too far off what we offered.

Irishpearce26

I think you are reaching thinking you can ask for £50K off the price. Much of the things you say come with a house that age, asbestos in Artex is fine as long as its not damaged but you aren't certain there is even asbestos in it yet. As others have mentioned the lack of certificates are irrelevant due to the survey and the time that has passed. Regarding the roof you will need to get a roof specialist in to confirm that it needs replacing otherwise you wont be taken seriously. 

If my buyer was demanding £50k without showing the report to back up their claims I would say pay up or pull out. FYI its well known that family interference can often derail perfectly fine sales so tread carefully and seek professional information on the works. If a surveyor says it will cost £25-30K its more likely to be £10-15K.

Section62

DancingQueen93 said:

....we would be taking on the liability for an un-certified extension without knowing if it was done well or a DIY job (as it’s still standing and report said it appeared on the surface to be structurally sound it’s probably ok…but when we come to sell we would have the same issue which surely could affect value of property?). It’s a tricky one 

Do you know why there is no completion certificate?  It isn't necessarily because the work wasn't carried out to the required standard under BC inspection... it might be completion of the work was never notified to the council, for example.

Also, why assume that a "DIY job" isn't "done well"? DIYers can be as competent as any builder. DIYers also normally have to live with the work they have done so might have additional incentive to work to a high standard... some builders aim to get paid and walk/run away asap.

You can't tell whether work (e.g. the DPC) was DIY just by looking at it - there is plenty of absolutely shocking 'professional' building work out there.

If the surveyor actually wrote the words "bodge job" about the electrics in the report then I can also understand why they wouldn't want it shared with anyone. That isn't the standard you'd expect from a professional.

DancingQueen93

Do you know why there is no completion certificate?  It isn't necessarily because the work wasn't carried out to the required standard under BC inspection... it might be completion of the work was never notified to the council, for example.

Also, why assume that a "DIY job" isn't "done well"? DIYers can be as competent as any builder. DIYers also normally have to live with the work they have done so might have additional incentive to work to a high standard... some builders aim to get paid and walk/run away asap.

You can't tell whether work (e.g. the DPC) was DIY just by looking at it - there is plenty of absolutely shocking 'professional' building work out there.

If the surveyor actually wrote the words "bodge job" about the electrics in the report then I can also understand why they wouldn't want it shared with anyone. That isn't the standard you'd expect from a professional.

Fair, work could have been done by an incompetent  “professional”. The holes drilled for the DPC are not done well (spaces between are not uniform and some look like they had a few goes at drilling through…as you say could be a bad professional, not necessarily DIY)

I had a phonecall with the surveyor in which he said “bodge job” - in the official report it is “clearly the system has been extended and altered in the past, some of the works seemingly being of speculative/poor standard. Surface mounted and exposed cabling was noted in some places and some of the sockets are loose and surface fixed, others being older design.”

Either way, we aren’t bringing up the issue of wiring with the seller as we do have a certificate of it having being tested (albeit 10 years ago). I know it can be common practice with surveyors to log both gas and electrics as “3, serious” purely because they aren’t able to test it themselves, therefore can’t say for certain if it’s safe or not.

steampowered

Personally I would consider walking away, as I do not want to be faffing about with building work. 

If you are asking for a price reduction as £50k the agent/seller will want a very, very good explanation. I would be tempted to send them the report. No way are they going to agree that sort of reduction just taking your word for it.