Used car fault - Purchased from trader - Who is responsible?

Simon25176

Afternoon all, hope you're well.
I purchased a used car two weeks ago after a couple of years of searching for the 'right' one. 
One of the main reasons for purchasing this one from a local-ish highly rated trader/business was the recent work that had been completed (Brakes all round, oil and water pump etc) and given its age, I expect to need work doing to it as it gets older. He also wouldn't negotiate any discount as he had a genuine offer to buy sight unseen but we'd agreed an appointment so let me have first refusal. 
Within a few days of purchase, I raised two issues with the trader - the gearbox gear change being too rough/jolting and the steering wheel wobbling under heavy slip-road breaking which we didn't do on the test drive. I had the gearbox oil changed as this is a common fault caused by 'lifetime' oil at a cost of $496.20 which the dealer had pre-agreed to fund £200 which I felt was generous for this particular issue given the car age.

While having this work done, the shop looked at the steering wheel wobble for me - basically all 4 brake discs have 'run-out' where the flat surface is no longer flat. Their comment was that the previous garage had used low quality parts and the resolution is to replace Discs and pads all around the car at a cost of around £700 (Jaguar XJ)
My question finally is this - The advert stated 'NEW FRONT AND REAR DISC AND PADS' - They were replaced by a garage about 45mins away in January for which I have the invoice of £450 but no note of the vehicle mileage at the time. Between myself, the garage who fitted the discs and the place i purchased the car from, Who should be repairing it?

I'm waiting to speak to the garage manager tomorrow to ask his stance on the work they did. The Business I purchased the car from says he cant do anything about it and to speak to the garage as its less than 6 months. He also says he would offer me a full refund for the vehicle if the V5 wasn't already in my name which I know is completely incorrect.
If I hand the car back, I'd be out of pocket by quite a bit, and it is the right one for me if the brakes are sorted so I don't really want to do that as I'd also be out of pocket quite a bit.
The cheapest quote I've received so far is £620 which does suggest lower quality parts

Thanks in advance
Simon

Grumpy_chap

Simon25176 said:

Afternoon all, hope you're well.
I purchased a used car two weeks ago after a couple of years of searching for the 'right' one. 
One of the main reasons for purchasing this one from a local-ish highly rated trader/business was the recent work that had been completed (Brakes all round, oil and water pump etc) and given its age, I expect to need work doing to it as it gets older. He also wouldn't negotiate any discount as he had a genuine offer to buy sight unseen but we'd agreed an appointment so let me have first refusal. 
Within a few days of purchase, I raised two issues with the trader - the gearbox gear change being too rough/jolting and the steering wheel wobbling under heavy slip-road breaking which we didn't do on the test drive. I had the gearbox oil changed as this is a common fault caused by 'lifetime' oil at a cost of $496.20 which the dealer had pre-agreed to fund £200 which I felt was generous for this particular issue given the car age.

While having this work done, the shop looked at the steering wheel wobble for me - basically all 4 brake discs have 'run-out' where the flat surface is no longer flat. Their comment was that the previous garage had used low quality parts and the resolution is to replace Discs and pads all around the car at a cost of around £700 (Jaguar XJ)
My question finally is this - The advert stated 'NEW FRONT AND REAR DISC AND PADS' - They were replaced by a garage about 45mins away in January for which I have the invoice of £450 but no note of the vehicle mileage at the time. Between myself, the garage who fitted the discs and the place i purchased the car from, Who should be repairing it?

I'm waiting to speak to the garage manager tomorrow to ask his stance on the work they did. The Business I purchased the car from says he cant do anything about it and to speak to the garage as its less than 6 months. He also says he would offer me a full refund for the vehicle if the V5 wasn't already in my name which I know is completely incorrect.
If I hand the car back, I'd be out of pocket by quite a bit, and it is the right one for me if the brakes are sorted so I don't really want to do that as I'd also be out of pocket quite a bit.
The cheapest quote I've received so far is £620 which does suggest lower quality parts

Thanks in advance
Simon

You may be able to make an estimate of the mileage in January by looking at the mileage when the last MOT was done.  Especially if the total miles covered since the MOT is low, or the MOT date was near to January.

You may be able to try to claim on warranty with the company that did the brakes, but they may argue the warranty is only with the original customer and / or expired.

How old is this car?  How many miles has it done?  What did you pay for it?  I am assuming from your OP that the car is one of the "classic" design XJ cars, not the modern style.  In which case, the car will be over 10 yo and likely a money-pit.

Simon25176

Yes, likely a money-pit but I was hoping that I wouldn't need to fork out for brakes after 3 days!
2010 'newer' style XJ with 100K miles. I paid about £1k above market value because of the Spec and the work supposedly already done but not sure if that matters in this case?

AdrianC

Simon25176 said:

One of the main reasons for purchasing this one from a local-ish highly rated trader/business was the recent work that had been completed (Brakes all round, oil and water pump etc) and given its age, I expect to need work doing to it as it gets older.

Go on, how old...?

Within a few days of purchase, I raised two issues with the trader - the gearbox gear change being too rough/jolting and the steering wheel wobbling under heavy slip-road breaking which we didn't do on the test drive. I had the gearbox oil changed as this is a common fault caused by 'lifetime' oil at a cost of $496.20 which the dealer had pre-agreed to fund £200 which I felt was generous for this particular issue given the car age.

Indeed it is.

While having this work done, the shop looked at the steering wheel wobble for me - basically all 4 brake discs have 'run-out' where the flat surface is no longer flat. Their comment was that the previous garage had used low quality parts and the resolution is to replace Discs and pads all around the car at a cost of around £700 (Jaguar XJ)
My question finally is this - The advert stated 'NEW FRONT AND REAR DISC AND PADS' - They were replaced by a garage about 45mins away in January for which I have the invoice of £450 but no note of the vehicle mileage at the time. Between myself, the garage who fitted the discs and the place i purchased the car from, Who should be repairing it?

Honestly? You.

It was advertised as having new discs and pads. It has new discs and pads.
The discs have warped.
You don't have any comeback against the garage who did the work - you aren't their customer. It's not noticeable in normal driving, just in hard use.

Assuming it's an X350, then decent brake parts aren't expensive - a very quick look finds one specialist listing TRW pads for about £60-70 for a full set. Discs are a bit pricier, £150-200 for a set of four discs. No way will it be £350 of labour to replace them...

Simon25176

It was advertised as having new discs and pads. It has new discs and pads.

The discs have warped.
You don't have any comeback against the garage who did the work - you aren't their customer. It's not noticeable in normal driving, just in hard use.

Assuming it's an X350, then decent brake parts aren't expensive - a very quick look finds one specialist listing TRW pads for about £60-70 for a full set. Discs are a bit pricier, £150-200 for a set of four discs. No way will it be £350 of labour to replace them...

It's the X351. It is noticeable when the brakes are, well, used. Cheapest I've found all the parts for is around £400 but I'm no mechanic

AdrianC

Simon25176 said:

It was advertised as having new discs and pads. It has new discs and pads.

The discs have warped.
You don't have any comeback against the garage who did the work - you aren't their customer. It's not noticeable in normal driving, just in hard use.

Assuming it's an X350, then decent brake parts aren't expensive - a very quick look finds one specialist listing TRW pads for about £60-70 for a full set. Discs are a bit pricier, £150-200 for a set of four discs. No way will it be £350 of labour to replace them...

It's the X351. It is noticeable when the brakes are, well, used. Cheapest I've found all the parts for is around £400 but I'm no mechanic

But not so noticeable that you noticed on the test drove, only under hard braking a few days later...

Looks like X351 bits (so not exactly old-old, 11yo max - I thought you were going to say XJ40 or even series...) are similarly priced to X350.
https://www.berkshirejagcomponents.com/jaguar-xj-2010-brakes-and-brake-parts-c102x2777393

Simon25176

But not so noticeable that you noticed on the test drove, only under hard braking a few days later...

Looks like X351 bits (so not exactly old-old, 11yo max - I thought you were going to say XJ40 or even series...) are similarly priced to X350.

To be honest, I missed it - wasn't really looking for it when they were quoted as New. Everyday is a learning day.

Thanks for the link, think I'll need that in future!

motorguy

I'd get on to a Jaguar forum and see what discs come highly recommended on there.  An X351 is a big heavy car so will need decent quality discs that wont warp under heavy braking.

I'd get the discs ordered up and delivered then get quotes for fitting.  You then arent at the mercy of whatever your local mechanic / indy decides to fit from the local motor factors, especially if he feels under pressure to quote before getting the work.

AdrianC

motorguy said:

I'd get the discs ordered up and delivered then get quotes for fitting.  You then arent at the mercy of whatever your local mechanic / indy decides to fit from the local motor factors, especially if he feels under pressure to quote before getting the work.

But, of course, that then introduces the risk of the garage refusing to fit owner-supplied parts... Which is sensible on their part - they get the car up, take the old off, find the new is wrong...

It also means that if the new ones turn out to warp quickly, you have no comeback.

A good garage should have no issue if you say "And I want OEM-quality parts". I did exactly this with a clutch replacement a couple of months ago - "And I'm happy to pay extra for LUK or Valeo or similar, please." "Oh, fine. No prob"

motorguy

AdrianC said:

motorguy said:

I'd get the discs ordered up and delivered then get quotes for fitting.  You then arent at the mercy of whatever your local mechanic / indy decides to fit from the local motor factors, especially if he feels under pressure to quote before getting the work.

But, of course, that then introduces the risk of the garage refusing to fit owner-supplied parts... Which is sensible on their part - they get the car up, take the old off, find the new is wrong...

It also means that if the new ones turn out to warp quickly, you have no comeback.

A good garage should have no issue if you say "And I want OEM-quality parts". I did exactly this with a clutch replacement a couple of months ago - "And I'm happy to pay extra for LUK or Valeo or similar, please." "Oh, fine. No prob"

Depends on the relationship you have with the garage doesnt it?

If you ring up randomly to some garage you dont know then yes i can see them refusing.

I've a longstanding relationship with the indy i use so hes happy to fit specific bits for me.  I've ATE ceramic pads coming for my Z4 that hes going to fit and coilover suspension for my 6 series, both of which he'll fit no issues.

I do that when i want specific parts but otherwise, like yourself i'll tell him i want OEM quality parts as a minimum.

But specific to this situation, i was thinking of a scenario whereby there was something specific recommended on forums that might be better, rather than maybe typical OEM quality stuff.

Simon25176

Forgive me for this question then, but I need to understand why I'm wrong as the replies so far point towards it being my problem to solve - fair enough!
My feeling originally was that because it wasn't as advertised, it would be down to the dealer I purchased from to resolve? Or is it a case of give the car back or just accept it?
With the thinking that 'new' discs aren't faulty ones.