PIP Mandatory Reconsideration

Ginsipper007

Hi. I've been helping a family friend with his PIP application. He was unsuccessful in his initial application, and so we requested a Mandatory Reconsideration. He's just received a voicemail from the DWP to say they've reached their decision and a letter is in the post. He's checked his bank account, just in case, and no funds have been deposited.

Is it normal for the DWP to leave voicemails in advance of receipt of decision letters? They didn't do this with the initial application. What are other people's experiences of outcomes following a voicemail message?

Thank you in advance. Incidentally, we also found alot of the information on this board really useful during this process, so thanks to all those contributors.

poppy12345

I've not known them leave a message stating that. As for money in the bank, it sounds like the decision was made very recently and a BACS payment takes 3-5 working days to go into your bank. If an award has been made then payment is usually made on the same day. Money usually goes into your bank before a letter is received.

You can of course ring DWP tomorrow when they open and ask what the decision is and they will tell you.

Ginsipper007

Thanks for your reply, Poppy.  I thought the voicemail was slightly odd.  Unfortunately, the person in question (due to significant MH difficulties) doesn't use his phone and so ringing the DWP is a bit of a non starter and they (the DWP) won't talk to his anyone else on his behalf.  The effect of the voicemail has been to exacerbate his MH difficulties - he doesn't cope very well with half-bits of information, the implications of which are difficult to decipher.  I'm actually shocked, given the psychiatric report submitted, that the DWP appear to think this is a reasonable way to communicate with him.  Appreciate your guidance about BACs payments and timescales.  I'll pass it on.

Ginsipper007

For the sake of completeness I thought I'd update with an outcome.

It turned out to be good news. He was awarded the enhanced rates for both daily living and mobility at the MR stage. Pretty amazing as he got zero points for both in the initial application and following assessment. I helped with the initial application, advocated during the phone assessment and helped with the MR request. There was no change in circumstances. 

Muttleythefrog

CLee said:

For the sake of completeness I thought I'd update with an outcome.

It turned out to be good news. He was awarded the enhanced rates for both daily living and mobility at the MR stage. Pretty amazing as he got zero points for both in the initial application and following assessment. I helped with the initial application, advocated during the phone assessment and helped with the MR request. There was no change in circumstances. 

Makes me wonder if the original DM (along with the MR DM) should be hauled in, by someone with the power to dismiss or sanction them, to explain how such a dramatically different result can arise after MR. We are talking about someone determined to not have any disabilities serious enough to score any points for PIP to suddenly without change score enough points to qualify for the maximum benchmarks of disability for PIP.  It's like employing a chef who can't tell the difference between beetroot and a brick - and who has successfully broken several customer's teeth. The 'new information has been supplied' defence often touted sounds like it may have little relevance as in a lot of cases and that they could have processed this far more accurately. It gives little confidence in the process which, like other factors including that which you raise on communication, can exacerbate the very problems the disabled person faces. That of being disbelieved I think is particularly and broadly damaging.

Anyway... well done... and thank you for helping this disabled individual get their entitlement! Sadly I worry there are far too few people like you to help far too many people like your friend.

cantcope

Muttleythefrog said:

CLee said:

For the sake of completeness I thought I'd update with an outcome.

It turned out to be good news. He was awarded the enhanced rates for both daily living and mobility at the MR stage. Pretty amazing as he got zero points for both in the initial application and following assessment. I helped with the initial application, advocated during the phone assessment and helped with the MR request. There was no change in circumstances. 

Makes me wonder if the original DM (along with the MR DM) should be hauled in, by someone with the power to dismiss or sanction them, to explain how such a dramatically different result can arise after MR. We are talking about someone determined to not have any disabilities serious enough to score any points for PIP to suddenly without change score enough points to qualify for the maximum benchmarks of disability for PIP.  It's like employing a chef who can't tell the difference between beetroot and a brick - and who has successfully broken several customer's teeth. The 'new information has been supplied' defence often touted sounds like it may have little relevance as in a lot of cases and that they could have processed this far more accurately. It gives little confidence in the process which, like other factors including that which you raise on communication, can exacerbate the very problems the disabled person faces. That of being disbelieved I think is particularly and broadly damaging.

Anyway... well done... and thank you for helping this disabled individual get their entitlement! Sadly I worry there are far too few people like you to help far too many people like your friend.

i agree. The assessors that do this need to be held accountable. 
My mum received zero points after an at homeassessment where my dad answered most questions on her behalf before my dad called up for MR in disbelief. she was then awarded max points.
She has vascular dementia, MS, diabetes, COPD, is bed bound and double incontinent and yet was assessed as able to care for herself. 
Disgrace

Ginsipper007

Yeah, I did wonder whether they were handing out 0 points by default. No new info was provided in the request for MR - I know this for certain because I drafted it, had to help him write the original application and I posted both for him, plus I was sitting with him for the telephone assessment ...

But what they did have in the request was a massive statement from me, tearing into the decision, and pointing out how they seemed to have literally no clue re: the impact of specific MH issues, backed up by dozens of academic papers on the matter. It really does speak to complete ignorance on their part.

But what you said, Muttley, regards the very damaging effects DWP decisions can have on claimants, is spot on. It's something I worried a lot about with this young man.

As it goes, I helped someone else at the same time, mostly because I was made furious by how 'the system' was treating people. They also got 0 points after application + assessment. Again, it was clear that both the assessor and decision maker had little clue about their MH difficulties. Another request for MR, accompanied by a long statement and research papers. The DWP actually phoned this person up to discuss and confirmed enhanced daily and standard mobility there and then.

I'm not an advice worker, far from it, just a bog standard admin in an office that's got nowt to do with the public sector, benefits or social care.

poppy12345

CLee said:

Yeah, I did wonder whether they were handing out 0 points by default.

No, that's not what happens. The majority of people do claim successfully but remember on any internet forum that often doesn't seem the case because if a person has an award they're happy with we don't hear their story.

Ginsipper007

poppy12345 said:

CLee said:

Yeah, I did wonder whether they were handing out 0 points by default.

No, that's not what happens. The majority of people do claim successfully but remember on any internet forum that often doesn't seem the case because if a person has an award they're happy with we don't hear their story.

Ah, that makes sense, except all three I've dealt with recently have been 0 points at application and a dramatically different result at MR. As I've drafted all the applications and the requests, there's no additional information that seems to explain this.

poppy12345

CLee said:

poppy12345 said:

CLee said:

Yeah, I did wonder whether they were handing out 0 points by default.

No, that's not what happens. The majority of people do claim successfully but remember on any internet forum that often doesn't seem the case because if a person has an award they're happy with we don't hear their story.

Ah, that makes sense, except all three I've dealt with recently have been 0 points at application and a dramatically different result at MR. As I've drafted all the applications and the requests, there's no additional information that seems to explain this.

Are you saying that when you’ve requested the MR you haven’t given any additional information, just requested it and that’s it?
Or have you given additional information at MR? 

I’ve been claiming PIP since 2013 and my daughter since 2017 and neither of us have ever had a problem.

Spoonie_Turtle

CLee said:

poppy12345 said:

CLee said:

Yeah, I did wonder whether they were handing out 0 points by default.

No, that's not what happens. The majority of people do claim successfully but remember on any internet forum that often doesn't seem the case because if a person has an award they're happy with we don't hear their story.

Ah, that makes sense, except all three I've dealt with recently have been 0 points at application and a dramatically different result at MR. As I've drafted all the applications and the requests, there's no additional information that seems to explain this.

Presumably in the requests you refuted faulty reasoning. In the one above you said you included info about mental health as well as the statement.  You didn't simply regurgitate the application form, which is what 'no additional info' would mean.

I'm absolutely not defending the assessors or the DWP (they certainly share blame; if the assessors wrote good reports DWP would have little choice but to make the right decision, however DWP have discretion to look at the whole file and not just the report but they don't seem to do that until it comes to MR at the very earliest) but your statement of there being no additional information for the MR simply cannot be correct.

I don't know about the majority of claims being successful first off, but for the reasons poppy stated it is inevitable we will hear the horror stories far more frequently than successes on the internet.  As it happens I also had success at the MR stage, and it seems to be becoming less rare.  Of course it would be ideal if correct decisions first time round became the norm, but not too long ago almost all MRs failed so things are hopefully at least moving in the right direction.